AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

Obviously we all think differently- I personally think it's monstrously selfish of them to be aware you were all bending to be very inclusive and accommodating 'their' budget every time -rather than just coming clean and saying that we set a strict budget for holidays because we have chosen to have very high savings targets and saying to the rest of you to go ahead and they would decide if they could afford it.

@richmanpoorman I know it's late in the thread and I've only really read your posts, but are you sure they've always been this flush over the years - could a large chunk of it be down to a recent inheritance or recent growth in savings etc? So for the first 15 years or so they didn't actually have hundreds of thousands in the bank?

Just sort of playing devil's advocate in case that's a possibility - the son isn't likely to know all the ins and outs of what they had extra over the years. Would it change things if it wasn't so straightforward as "they always had >£20K per year they didn't need"?

Interesting one.

Money is a funny topic because it's something that many are very uncomfortable talking about in public. Everyone will have made lots of subtle, nuanced compromises around what they thought was this couple's situation, in an attempt to avoid the couple's feeling excluded, not wanting to make a big thing out of it. And now those making the compromises feel like they have been disadvantaged as a result. Which, indeed, they have!

Ultimately I reckon it's a judgement call on two fronts: (1) how much the individual feels they have been disadvantaged, and (2) how much the individual more generally gets spooked by people not being up front about things.

Personally I would not care about (1) - what's past is past - but on (2) my instincts would be telling me to run for the hills! But that is because I have a really strong personal baseline rule that if people are aren't being straight about one thing, they probably aren't being straight in other ways (e.g. I mistrust adulterers as well). So if someone reveals themselves to be deceptive on some non-trivial matter, my instinct is to keep them at arm's length more generally.

But I'm also human and if I really liked them I guess I might give them a pass? I can totally get why people might get the "ick" from this though and just want to keep well away.

Really, some of y’all are mad that you didn’t get to spend as much on a holiday as you’d like? After the fact? The fact you couldn’t make your own fun and enjoyment in those situations it’s pretty revealing.

Honestly I’d be grateful to them. They’ve saved you money and reined in the escalation of spending that is all too common in groups.

Some of you never went on cheap holidays as a kid and it shows haha

I'd be beyond passed. Of course people are free to choose how to spend their own money but the claiming to not HAVE any money and pleading poverty is disgraceful. They have not been good friends at all.

It would be such a shame to loose this friendship group over this!!!
They made a financial decision in the interest of their kids which meant they had x amount dispensable income each month for holidays / eating out etc. That was their choice and they stuck to it.
Who is anyone else to question that, let alone be angry at them for it.
Yes it's frustrating they 'echnically chose to be hard up and it impacted you in various ways. But everyone chooses what they do with their money each month and no one has any right to question someone's priorities, let alone judge them so harshly for doing something quite difficult in the interests of their children.
Yes holiday accommodation would have been nicer. But to them the priority was holiday memories and the company and that was still doable within a set budget.
I understand your reaction but the friends that have stopped talking to them need to seriously grow up and stop judging how people prioritise how they spend / what they do with their hard earned money.
I truly hope that with a little time this is something you can all laugh about and the good times continue as 18 year friendships are like goldust and shouldn't be thrown away lightly!

I do not laugh at friends lying to me for 20 years.

Well it’s interesting because the kids are reaching adulthood and heading off to jobs / university and the group presumably can now do “ grown up” trips in term time. Sadly it doesn’t look like the “ savers” are going to have the group to hang out with. They didn’t trust the group enough over the 2 decades they’ve known them to confide in even a spec of information about any of their financial priorities and now they can enjoy looking at the social media posts as their friends crack on without them. I suspect they will miss the group more than the group will miss them.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive..

I think these are the key points from your op.
1- even though I agree with you, you/ your friends are already deciding how best to spend the money. "Wouldn't have materially impacted the fund " is their decision to make, not yours.
2- not suggesting coffees is nice and considerate, and I can see you're pissed off because it was a deliberate approach based on what you now know to be not-quite-correct information. I wouldn't spoil a friendship based on that though.

It is a tough one and I'd think I'd want to know more about how much of the money and behaviour was deliberate misdirection from them and how much is down to different assumptions and attitudes.

I kind of mean, did they genuinely think they legitimately "couldn't afford" these things because it was so set in stone that money was accounted for, or was it an exaggeration to get away with being overly frugal?

Well, they've lied by omission and also actively for 18 years! That alone would put most people's backs up.

Because the friendship group likes them and are thoughtful and kind, you have sublimated your needs and preferences and comfort around all social activities, including holidays and special occasions, for 18 years - due to their lies. And they let you do this!

If they'd said at the start, or any point, actually, we are skint because we are saving everying to set up the children in later life, and so we can't do this/that - then you'd have the information to make your arrangements with them, suiting their self-imposed budget, every time or only on occasion.

As it is, they have compromised the quality and relaxation levels of their friends' leisure time, holidays, and social lives for 18 years! It's shameless.

First of all I think people who never lived in deep, traumatic poverty (I didn't) really don't understand the lifelong effect it has on people so I have a lot of sympathy for this couple.

Second, I think there was an awful lot of assuming going on in this friendship group. I have a fair idea of what my friends earn - just based on the jobs they do. So I would never assume that 2 good earners couldn't go for a coffee and cake or upgrade the accommodation - I'd ask. And I'd be fine if they said "sorry but that's not in our budget" people have different priorities and budgets and that is fine. But ask - seems like there was 18 years of acting like they were very poor when the evidence was clearly there that it was a choice not lack of money.

Third, how close were you if you didn't have a clue what was really going on with them? I mean it is obvious to all of us on here that they were good earners. Where was the money going? Did you ever worry he had a gambling problem or she wasted money? Did you ever wonder where their money was going? Did you every ask if everything was ok?

Fourth, I'd be annoyed at the rugby thing - both as the dad who paid it and the parents who were given it. As soon as the other dad paid for it they should have said "no way, mate - we can afford it we just chose not to. here is the money" But it was quite a high-handed thing for that dad to do too - who is he to say what their child does or doesn't do.

Also they should have kept their mouths shut to their 18 year old. He didn't need to know what was saved for the kids. none of his business. Telling an 18 year old the money is there for university is one thing. Telling him there is a wodge of serious cash there to speed him on his way is stupid.

They haven’t lied. They simply haven’t kept you abreast of their private financial decisions and why should they, as pressure to spend money ring fenced for their kids would impact their goals. If the income they saved had been spent on a mortgage your other friends knew or didn’t know about would they be acting out this way? All seems very petty and cliquey to me. Not sure how anyone could cut someone off for how they choose to spend their family money. It’s fine to say ‘we have £500 for holidays’ as that’s what they had for holidays. Wasn’t a lie. Your other mates just feel they should have prioritised holidays over their kid’s futures, obviously not going to happen.

I think pleading poverty while investing half their income is deceitful but obviously how they spend their money is up to them. It seems a shame their kids have missed out on other treats like holidays to nice places and driving lessons etc but each to their own.

In future you need to decide whether to increase the budget to go to nicer places and accept they might not be able to come or stick with the status quo. I would not be paying for rugby trips etc though.

Agree with this

Seriously, who complains about paying too little when you have to pay more if less people go when you are sharing the price of a SC holiday rental.

I'll spell it out - the downside if the depleted group holiday goes ahead - 4 families sharing the cost of the same price holiday rental instead of 5 families means a 25% basic increase in any event. Add your more expensive holiday option on top of that. It will never be the same experience anyway when the chat inevitably becomes coloured by bitterness/envy.

The upside is that you have definitely saved thousands over the last 18 yrs - more than a few coffees/£100 activity fee which in normal circumstances means nothing in relation to a "good" friendship.

This is yet another reason why group holidays never work - it always fractures over finances!

Agreed.

This story reminds me of a very wealthy man I knew who was very tight - with himself as well as the rest of the family. After a serious injury, he opened a joint account with his wife years after the children had left home.
This was in the mid-nineties and the wife was gobsmacked to say the least to see salary payments of £20,000 each month. She offered her adult kids the horse and sailing boat that they had wanted as children, only to be told that it was far too late. Sadly, finally finding out that things they'd dreamed of had been very affordable seemed to make the children's relationship with their father even worse.
I wonder when these kids found out about their trust fund?

I've been sort of on the other side of this though not as extreme... But desperately saving up for a deposit for a house for years, so I allocated X amount into my savings account that could not be touched. As a result I had less spending money, often turned out activities I couldn't afford (though I would never have expected other people to adapt their plans.) In reality there likely were times when people suggested lunch at someone's house or something. On the other end of the scale I had a friend who seemed to have way more spending money than me and vaguely wondered why. She was putting everything on credit card. So in theory friend 1 who wasn't saving for a house could be annoyed with me being able to afford a house deposit when she thought I was poor. Friend 2 could be annoyed with both of us for acting like we couldn't afford stuff when we could have put it on credit cards like her. In reality different people have different approaches to money, different ideas of poor (I am scared if I have less than 3 months worth of savings. To me that is danger zone. Other people would be annoyed if I said I was broke but had that much saved). Of course your own friends are at a very extreme end of the spectrum.

I'd be mightily pissed off, especially about rugby camp.
It would be hard for me to trust them again.

Slightly off topic but I can't imagine having a friendship group as intense as this.
Holidaying with 4 other couples for 18 years?! Not for me.

And its not like me saving money for a house was a secret exactly. But I had someone (not a close friend) make a weird comment about "how did namity manage to buy a house I thought she was skint". That wasn't someone I was that close too though and certainly they hadn't subsidised me/changed plans on my behalf. (I did think you cheeky bint). Its easy to not realise how many assumptions others are making about you/your income based on their own spending habits and what they see.

It's interesting how many people would only spend time with these friends out of pity (superiority?) rather than wanting to spend time with them as friends.

This is nuts. Everyone seemed to know both parents had decent full time jobs yet were cash poor - it seems clear they were not pissing money up the wall on an extravagant lifestyle so their money was obviously going somewhere else - either they had a large mortgage, debts to repay, always had the heating on, were saving hard etc. Surely as friends you should be pleased the money was actually being put to good use and has set their kids up rather than having been used for debts or something else with nothing to show for.

My dh and i earn well and save pretty hard into our pension pots, come the end of the month we dont have anything left. Sometimes il say to friends can we go to x rather than y for dinner as we dont have the money. Iv never divulged why we dont have the money, what business is it of anyone else?!

And the whole bedroom decorating - this is such a new thing. As a child my bedroom was never 'decorated'. It was white and id put posters up. I never gave it a second thought and dont look back on my childhood with an ounce of sadness and regret over it.

It's none of your business and you all sound very jealous..they don't have to account to you all for their financial choices. the rugby thing isn't great but that's all.

I thought this too but surely as the friends were a close knit group, you'd know for a start if both parents had died and secondly probably have a pretty good idea of how much the estate was worth ifyswim.