AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

The rugby thing would piss me off but other than that I wouldn’t think anything of it.

It’s up to them how they spend their money and up to you how you spend yours. You could have gone on more expensive holidays.

And me.

I'm also intrigued about what savings!couples plan was going forward. And if they expected their kids to carry on the lie? If all the DC stayed friends it would have become VERY obvious very quickly when most of them were living back with parents/in dodgy flatshares with £60k student debt and savers!DC were loan free in expensive houses...which means they'd have a lot more money every month to go on holidays, have expensive weddings when the time came, etc.

Again....this isn't a case of squirrelling away some spare change when they could afford it. To have saved £850k in 18 years means they were saving nearly twice the average UK household income every single year, yet still pleading poverty.

The burn accident is the main thing that gives me pause here. At the same time, was the couple with the injured child forced to agree to stay at the unsafe rental? Or they agreed because you all wanted to keep the group together. It's nice to holiday with friends but at the end of the day my child comes before my friends. I think the core problem you all are having here is that the rest of you are overly enmeshed in the group, prioritizing group togetherness rather than each couple prioritizing what they wanted for their own family. And that's how you ended up that one time with a holiday booking that was unsafe (at least that's how it reads from what you've posted so far).

And I think what happened here with finding out about this one couple's savings, is that this made you realize this couple actually were not doing the same thing. They are not as enmeshed as the rest of you. They were making sure they put their resources towards the thing they want, which is a good nest egg to give their children. But because they didn't disclose it explicitly, they benefited from the way the rest of you have all been enmeshed into the group, and how you all were willing to make big concessions of your own wants to include this other couple.

But I feel like the way you're reacting is somewhat continuing this enmeshment. Instead of saying to yourself: "yes, these other friends found out about this and each couple is reacting in the way that suits them best," you are here trying to manage everyone and keep the close-knit group dynamic that, actually, was maybe a bit problematic in the first place. You're even trying to manage the couple whose child was scarred, and, what, bring them back to the fold? Maybe just leave them alone and let them decide what is best for their own family instead of interfering.

I would guess there were a lot of occasions other than just that one rugby class where other members of the group quietly paid for this family because they didn't want them to feel excluded. That's not very cool of the couple who benefited from the generosity of others without disclosing they didn't need it. But that's just one aspect of the bigger problem of the enmeshment IMO.

"I can't afford it" is different to "I am not able to afford it right now as have locked money into investments for the kids' future".

I don’t think there is a way to say that without it coming off as smug humble-bragging. I expect they kept their mouths shut because they had their goals and they knew that they would be pressured to spend more than they wanted to spend (the friends are upset because they absolutely would have pushed for more expensive holidays, meals, etc if they’d known the full picture).

It doesn’t really matter what they earn/t, what matters is they had a set budget for socialising and holidays.

You all as a group of friends felt uncomfortable about this because it didn’t suit you and changed your behaviour (not getting coffee etc).

It was never anyone’s business to be dictating to them what they did with their money, nor vice versa.

The only people stopping you going on nicer holidays or whatever else is yourselves, you wanted these people to come so you lowered the bar.

Now you find out that they have saved so their children shall want for nothing in life - should have all their education and first house bought for them.

And you’re all pissed because you didn’t do this and can’t provide same for your own children. So in retaliation someone’s decided to go skiing to make themselves feel better and more superior.

In reality, the responsibility lies with all of you; you wanted these people to be part of the holiday experience and so you had to respect their budget…. You could have gone skiing anytime, but you all cared about these people more - think on that. Friendship is worth more than a ski trip - they are overrated anyway.

For 18 years, the saving family have not had to choose between their preference (to save) and going on the group holiday. They have not had to compromise. They have not had to face any negative consequences of their choice. They had it all their way because the group believed they had no alternative.

For 18 years, the other families have had to choose between their preference (a nicer group holiday) and including the saving couple in the group. The compromise has always fallen on them. They have unknowingly carried the negative consequences of their friends' saving choice.

Had they known the saver family could have afforded a nicer holiday but were making an active choice to prioritise savings they might have put it on to the saver family to compromise sometimes.

Of course that is not to say the saver family should have had to join an expensive holiday. Faced with that decision they could certainly say "no, we prefer to maintain our saving goals than join the holiday with you". The point is instead of the choice always being "will we have a cheap holiday again or exclude our friends this year?", sometimes it should have been "will we divert some savings into a more expensive holiday or not join our friends this year?"

Simply put, in a fair setup sometimes the decision to compromise or lose out should have been borne by the saving couple, so by misleading the friendship group on their financial situation and choices the saving friends have not been fair to the others.

It was very wrong of them to deprive their own children sports wise, driving lessons, I think they're storing up trouble.

There's an accountant moved into our cul de sac he's rooked his brother out of his inheritance and other people. They're a strange family.

The bottom line is you are now free to go skiing, eat out etc. but I think you're right this group friendship is damaged. Imagine the next time you see them socially and they say with perfectly straight faces that they can't afford a piece of cake with their cup of tea. I'd struggle with that outright lie

Enmeshed? That is a strange way to describe friends who are trying to think of the overall group.
You do know you do not keep and maintain close meaningful friendships if you only think of yourself and your own family all the time and never consider anyone else?

I know two couples who are astonishingly frugal - in each case one spouse is an accountant. It annoys me that I have to pay for parking when I visit (in London - pay to park outside someone’s house but MOST people spring to pay for their guests) or we have to have manky instant coffee at their house rather than go out but…I know they’re being frugal and they’re open about it. If I want proper coffee I just go out with other friends.

I think the issue is here is where they’ve let other people sub them - eg the rugby club. one way of looking at your cheap holidays is that you must have saved thousands yourselves!

I think what's missing here though, and the OP hadn't clarified, is the extent to which this went further than simply downgrading the holiday accommodation / place.

Other's have mentioned this also but how much extra subsidising went on? Eg for food/booze/trips etc. I wonder whether this is why the rest of the group are angry because they have subsidised the other couple and their children only to find they could have afforded it. Is the rugby the tip of the iceberg? (we actually don't know if they offered to pay this back and if not why not as that's what's wound normally happen).

Lots have said the OP is jealous. They may have decent savings but no, I’d absolutely not be jealous of someone who have put money above two decade long relationships and, most importantly, penny pinching at the cost of their children missing out on experiences. House deposit and university financial help or not.

Someone who HAS**

@richmanpoorman

I don’t think you would have stayed friends at all; there would have been resentment and problems all the way along - everytime they said no to going out someone would feel irritated knowing they were saving for their kids future, which would take the shine off the expensive experience and call in self doubt. Eventually this couple would have been sidelined just as they are now.

😂 sorry.
I'd have to end the friendship with them purely because realistically its never going to be ok- you've accomodated them at 'their level' & let's be honest their friendship with you guys is purely based around the fact that they found a group of friends who were willing/understanding/accepting of them & willing to make changes to suit them - they never really liked you all & would have dropped out of the group years ago if you'd have spoken up & demanded more from them as this money was clearly a priority for them

I doubt the friendship loss will hurt them now the kids are over 18 though as their money will now stretch alot further & they no longer have need for "kids friends" hence the drunk slip that they're basically not in the same boat as you all

Basically just let them drift off on their own accord if you dont want to be in the middle & support the ski group as theyre your true friends (😁)

I feel sorry for the poor boy stuck in the middle of all this. Must be awful for him.

I think it is way beyond cheeky they let you subsidise them (paying for the holiday club etc) whilst building up huge savings for their kids. Thats just completely wrong and they should be ashamed of that and apologise. You helped them as they were your good friends and thought they were in financial need. You took them at face value. They should never have given you all this impression.

Also, they must have known with the holidays you could all afford better accommodation, so they happily let you book places that weren’t very nice and suited just their budget. Again, totally wrong. They didn’t need to reveal everything, but they should have stepped away from the holidays and let you all book something nicer. They could still have found plenty of other times to socialise with you all.

Not surprised the majority are not speaking to them.

If you all knew how much they earned then they were never lying or misleading you. You didn't know why on their income they didn't have lots of spare cash but you knew they earned well.

If they were prioritising their pensions or had a huge mortgage on their house would everyone feel differently? It had to be clear they were managing their money differently. That's still the case and how they've managed it isn't unreasonable. I admire that they've been able to be upfront with people and say despite what we earn, we don't splash cash around so please don't pressure us to keep up with expensive habits.

The idea that this could destroy a friend group of 18 years where the kids are all close friends is absurd.

So you've all done things to suit their budget and they've paid their way except for their sons rugby school?

CFs for sure about the rugby school, but otherwise pretty wise if I'm honest.

Had my hubby hadnt decided to stop work to look after the kids, that's what I'd have done.

It's never easy when you realise that you've invested much more in friends than they ever did in you.

Honestly, apart from the rugby thing, they haven't done anything wrong. They have a budget, they told you what it was, they told you they had a big mortgage, they didn't tell you they were also saving for their kids future. But personally, I don't think anyone has to tell people how they are spending their money. If you wanted to do things beyond their budget, you could have and seen them for cheaper excursions. If you were such good friends, I am sure they would have understood. They had priorities that didn't match yours or the groups, that is OK. Personally, if I had a choice between giving my kids a debt free education and house deposit or keeping up with friends, I know what I would choose! It's much harder for this generation to get started, I would want to give my kids every advantage that I could.

I’m in this situation except we don’t earn as much as the other couples and I am often spending more than I would like on events in order to spend time with them. Our kids grew up with group holidays too. Not so unusual I think. We are quite careful to be inclusive though. I wouldn’t be able to get over the implied deceit.

The closest example I can think of was a single parent (man) who had lost his wife when his daughter was 2 who we all tried to accommodate by inviting his daughter to parties and then sending the dad along to accompany so he wouldn’t be the only dad at the party. I think we were all sympathetic to his situation. He seemed happy to accept support and sympathy for his situation. It then transpired he had another daughter the same age from his mistress who he then got together with and formed a new family and left the school. We did feel like fools.

Unless everything you all did over the last eighteen years (holidays, meals out etc) we’re together every single time I can’t see what the big deal is. The money they earmarked for their kids futures was not part of their spare budget, just as the cost of their mortgage wouldn’t be. It’s akin to being pissed off because they’d decided to have a more expensive mortgage than the rest of you or were putting more in a private pension.

I hope someone, all of you, are making sure the poor boy is told he did nothing wrong (and that he’s ok).

Unless everything you all did over the last eighteen years (holidays, meals out etc) we’re together every single time I can’t see what the big deal is.

These are my thoughts too and if the OP really wanted to go on a fancier holiday etc then she could.

I can see why this may be the case for some. In my experience, it’s simply absolutely tedious being friends (well, they’re actually my husband’s friend and his wife) with a couple like this. I’ve been a bit miffed after too many “We don’t want to go to this restaurant. What about here?” then had a mediocre/poor meal. Never once did I envy them though or it cause self doubt rather, as you mentioned. On the contrary I thought what if one of them died suddenly and they’ve spent their life eating the same thing for dinner all week as it was the batch cooked meal and the only day trip their DC had was to the local park.