AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

Who's paid for them? Sorry I cant see where the Op has says they funded them at all.

What I can see is a couple who have said, this is what we can afford, we cant spend more then that, and the other couples have fallen in line so they keep the friendship circle.

The couple were sensible tbh as far as Im concerned, they have secured their Childrens future now when they need it, rather then spend spend spend and hope they at least leave a property when they die and the kids are adults

I gave a friend who is ISA'd up to the max, earns about 3 times what I do and is always "skint". It's pretty galling.

Not buying it

To be honest unless people paid for them I do not think it is anybody business. They made huge sacrifices for their children. I would go to where I want to go and give them the option of joining us and if they say it is too expensive just do your own thing.

Aside from the moment they let someone subsidize their child, they haven’t done anything wrong.

DH and I live below our means. If you have the luxury to do so, it’s the responsible choice to make.

I couldn’t help but think it’s incredible despite this issue of finances, that you’ve been so lucky to have such a wonderful friendship group of 18 years! That’s such a wonderful achievement in itself and something worth being proud of and holding on to! I think as with any friendship or family groups, you take the good and leave the bad. In my own experience there will always be a relative pleading poverty that impacts the rest of the group but will pull out all the stops on lavish indulgences for themselves. Sometimes you have to leave the annoyances behind for the greater Good which in your case is a wonderful friendship group. My experience in life is the richest aren’t always the most generous

Blaming them for the burn is irrational they don’t own the holiday accommodation. It’s like blaming the rich family if someone has an accident skiiing. Bonkers!

Yes this is fucking nuts!

I went to Uni with posh kids & it's the holidays, sports & experiences, the well-rounded upbringing that is helpful with confidence, not just uni & house.

I, sort of, understand this tho as I grew up dirt poor & we save a lot & don't see that cash/investments as available spends.

They have over-saved tho, too much jam tomorrow.

They need to watch a bit of James Slack on YouTube.

I can see why you feel lied to tho, as well.

It's embarrassing that they've accepted money from others while saving a whole salary on the side. I'm honestly not surprised the rest of your group are angry.

If they'd been honest from the start it wouldn't be so bad. The fact this has never been mentioned in 18 years sort of proves they've been quite deceitful.

It's not about the holidays as none of you needed to agree to an uncomfortable holiday if you didn't want to. And the injury is no one's fault, or all of yours, since you all agreed to that accommodation. I'm assuming more luxurious holidays were taken by most of the couples at other times. Surely you didn't all just have this one cheap group holiday every year?

The dishonesty is the part that would upset me. Not that I expect any of my friends to layout their exact salaries and spending plans, but to plead poverty where there was none is awful. So I can understand why everyone is upset. Plus it seems a ridiculous way to live - to try to save an entire salary for years on end. I'm all for saving but to deny yourself for so long seems over the top.

OTOH everyone has the right to set their own financial priorities and no one has the right to see their friends' bank accounts. You did accommodate their desire to spend less so that you could holiday together. And you managed to stay friends throughout 18 years which is a huge achievement. Seems a shame to throw it all away. I hope you can all get over it and move forward.

Are you sure you didn’t all just presume they were hard up because they didn’t spend money on the same things as the group does ? Cos they lived a simple life ? What difference would it have made if they’d told you they were saving ?

They have lied to you for years, they aren't your friends. They could have saved for their children without repeatedly telling you they were struggling. They knew exactly what they were doing, it's why they never mentioned the saving fund.
It's sad that the kids are now feeling the effects of their parents lies, and I hope the children can all remain friends, but no one else should feel pressured to be friends with people who treat them like that. I know you said you paid a sports club and subbed a holiday, but I bet there is more, there is always more.

I'm with the jealous option. They've shown everyone that it is possible to save an impressive amount through not blowing money on unnecessary things. The people who got the leg up with house deposits and no student debt are no doubt cranky that this couple have provided, by themselves, an enviable start for their children.

I think they were right not to tell you how much they were saving as it sounds like they would have been pressured to waste money as the group thinks they "could afford it".

You've said yourself the holidays were fun. Isn't that enough?

They lied about being in poverty, and allowed others to subsidise their son's camp! £20 per day is not cheap!!! I kinda feel like I wouldn't ever trust what they say now, as they've been very shady. You can still be friends with them, but I would continue to meet the group separately.

I've had something vaguely similar in my wider friendship group. A friend taking advantage of others' hospitality and living with various different pals at very generous mates' rates for long periods in centralish London claiming he was struggling financially whilst quietly saving a good deposit for a house and, it turned out, reducing his hours while they worked full time. They offered to put him up cheaply of their own accord but thinking they were helping someone struggling, not someone saving furiously whilst not paying market rent. He lost several close friendships as.people do feel taken advantage of and hoodwinked.

I know this is different and they have taken advantage and imposed much less but they haven't really been honest and it sounds have accepted both generosity in terms of having drinks, rugby etc subbed but also knowing everyone else wanted to do one type of thing for holidays, omitted that it was a decision to save, not a lack of money that meant they would influence group decisions.

It feels a bit manipulative rather than just allowing the group to do what they like and have the guts to own their decision and not attend every occasion or holiday.

I genuinely understand why people feel the way they do.

However. What next? I think you have a good understanding of why they have done what they did. Then to be honest, do you think they would be such close friends if they had done the above and not been on holidays etc? Are there any other part time members of the group?

Can you and your husband approach the couple and see if they want to talk? I'd let them know you're not disputing their decision was a solid one for them. You don't think they should have done differently with their money. However it's about whether they understand people feel it wasn't really cool to accept generosity (even relatively small amounts) and flexibility over years on the understanding they were struggling when in fact they weren't, they had the money, they just wanted to save it AND keep up with their new rich mates. Not in an accusatory way, just present them with how people are feeling and see how they respond.

If it wasn't for the child being hurt id suggest things will all blow over but if they haven't after a few weeks, this might be the approach I would take.

Not that they're responsible for the injury but the line of thinking 'well, it wouldn't have happened if we weren't there. We were only there because of their bullshit' sounds quite firmly etched.

I think this is about trust, not just money.
These people may be lovely but they have prioritised their savings above honesty and relationships with the rest of the group.
While I agree that accidents can happen anywhere, they are more likely to happen in poorly maintained shitholes so I can understand the parents of the injured girl being angry and don't think I could get over that if it were me.
I can't see that the group relationships can ever be the same as there will always be that knowledge bubbling under the surface so you may have to maintain the relationship with this couple separately

I think this does sound like poor parenting.

never been on a school trip? Nor even standard stuff like the year 6 residential (not the pricey optional ski trip)?

no extracurricular activities at all, not having your bedroom how you like it?

that is excessive deprivation in the name of long term saving.

it sounds unbalanced and controlling tbh.

and it’s early days. Having had little to no ‘nice’ things their kids may go the other way and spend excessively when eg handed money to buy a property.

yes it’s good to save. But life today shouldn’t be this joyless. Or more to the point your kids shouldn’t be missing out on completely normal
things in pursuit of some long term goal.

We live on one income. I’m amazed at your audacity in thinking any of my friends should have a say in how we choose to spend our money. I’d have absolutely never taken a penny from you. £20 a day rugby thing was quite cheeky tbh.
you (and your group) should have insisted on going to better places if the options on low budgets were so grim. You still chose to go there with a these friends and that’s because you enjoyed their company.
Now that you realised their kids are set, you have problems with the choice you were happy to make for 18yrs. it’s jealousy, nothing else.

I really commend them for making those choices and sacrifices for their children. We too hope to be able to do that for our kids.

Btw, are you sure they didn’t land on some inheritance / lottery or some other sudden money?

It's the deceit and manipulation that would upset me so very much. I'd be so hurt if I were you OP.

Can I ask how the 'poor family' are reacting? What a sorry state of affairs.

Interesting in many respects although the mere idea of this type of holiday is enough to make me run for the hills. In this scenario I'd definitely feel duped but with a codependent group like this if it wasn't this issue it would be something else. I hope it all works out for everyone involved.

I think they did the smart thing. too many people fritter money away on useless things or are pressurised (often indirectly) by their peers to spend more than they really want or need. Good on them for sticking to their decision to save and giving their kids a leg up. we all know the coming generations will not be able to afford housing without some parental help.

if they had told the group, they would have faced the same judgement. and faced attempts to persuade them to spend more money. and the thing with spending money is once you start and get into expensive habits, its all downhill (which is fine if one has pots of money + no need to save). also get didn't ask for rugby camp "gift" - the friends decided to give it. so that's not their fault either

I think the rest of your group is reacting like this also due to some jealousy perhaps

Do you knowingly allow your friends to scrimp on going places together though whilst you're squirreling away your one income? That's the point, not whether the 'poor' friends have been judicious or not surely you can see that?

Previous reply deleted as posted without reference to full thread.

OP I totally understand their priorities and don’t fault them for this at all. I also understand given their backgrounds why they pursued this route, although perhaps not to the extreme level they have. However also I agree their lack of transparency was underhand, especially as it has meant that they’ve been subsidised by you all and/or plans have been downgraded to accommodate them when they might simply have gone ahead without them.

If they had said years ago that they were choosing to forego certain luxuries because they were banking one of their salaries for the kid’s uni/property/retirement I am sure you’d all have respected that and simply made sure that there were a mix of trips/events they could take part in or chose to opt out of. I understand that you would feel betrayed and angry over what is little more than a grand a year out of the nest egg they’ve built - and the implication that, as a group, your friendship did not hold the same value for them as it did for you.

But what is desperately sad is the impact on your children and I hope that you can put this aside in front of them, and this couple’s son. They will likely all go to uni and likely drift their own separate ways to some extent now, anyway, but it would be sad for this lad to carry the weight of the fall-out of his candidness (unlike his parents) amongst friends.

Betrayed and angry, yup that'd be me too