AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

I have a similar story about a friend who pleaded poverty for years and let us pay for meals out and drinks , was always forgetting their purse if we went out for lunch. They were paying the extra into an ISA and ended up buying a second home in Spain !

They didn’t lie about what disposable income they had. It is a totally personal decision how they chose to manage their money - and they clearly lived as though the other salary didn’t exist - for reasons much more sound than a holiday etc.

Ahhh this is very different.This is a user and she has blantly showed you her colours. So call her out on it or cut her off.

@ApisGuard That is a terrible approach to friendship and indicates an untrustworthy person.

I guess I don't understand the secrecy among friends. I get that there's a lot of trauma about growing up in real poverty and instability, and it's normal in that situation to have problems letting go of any savings even if they've gotten to a point of being able to afford to. On the other hand, they are talking about their house payments going up and the car needing work, and letting others foot the bill without acknowledging their secret savings.

On the other hand I understand they have set a ridgid barrier for that savings were they feel they can't touch it ever in order to keep up with their goals, but it is very frustrating. I would probably be upset too.

Yes, don't pressure other people to accept this. You'll end up with no friends in the group.

but if in the couples view they have x budget and to them in their view it is tight then they are not lying

But there is a difference between:

Our holiday budget is X this year/ We'll pass on the meal this weekend it's not in our budget / We're trying to save would anyone like to join us at this local free event with the DC

And

We can only afford X this year, and we can't afford this or that, and we can't afford to do this, and we're skint and things are tight as an endless drip drip drip over almost 2 decades giving the impression they're struggling financially.

The saving isn't the issue, nor is their holiday budget to be honest. Everyone has different priorities and finances.

The first situation is a couple choosing not to disclose their finances and making decisions based on their budget and financial priorities. The second is a couple choosing to be endlessly "open" about their financial difficulties but they've chosen to present a false front to people who considered them friends.

I think some posters here are going OTT about the rugby club thing. They (I think) told you they didn’t have any money at the time, and maybe they forgot to pay you back.

I understand what you say or agree with about authenticity (it’s a big part of a close and trusting relationship) but I agree with posters who said that you have agency. You could have gone on holiday where you wanted, but you didn’t. Why not have an open conversation saying you’d “like to go to somewhere really nice, we would love you to come, etc?” And over the years have alternated between that and going somewhere as a compromise, as you did several times?

It’s the son I really feel for here.

I’m afraid there would be no coming back from this for me. Almost 20 years of lies is not friendship. Also the fact that they try to justify this by saying they had poor upbringings is pretty crap and shows that they’re not taking responsibility for their actions (I had a very poor childhood and would never lie to my friends like this). Basically they’ve lied to manipulate the group into doing what suits them without consideration of others. Just really selfish behavior…don’t get me started on scamming money for the rugby camp. Go enjoy a lovely ski holiday 😃

I agree with this. Hopefully, the OP has told the group all their outgoings, or they'll be out of the Skiing 2025 group next year. The child getting burnt could have happened anywhere. That's ridiculous to blame them for. I can just imagine the WhatsApp group slagging them off, then one bloke chips in, "and remember when we all paid £20 for child to go to rugby camp", even though the family didn't ask and maybe they were short at that time, you said the extra money they had was not easily accessible. I don't have any idea of my friends' financial situations. I suggest stuff, they suggest stuff. I think it was a bit mean you said your kids have had a nice warm house, nice bedrooms etc. What do they live in? A shed? I think your friends are definitely jealous.

Fair points

Their children don’t have passports

For eighteen years, you have all holidayed together within the UK?

Surely all the other families have holidayed abroad themselves?

The group trips are only the main holidays of the fund investors? For the rest of you, it’s just an additional long weekend/week away.

Erm I think this is more of a trust issue tbh. They have basically got you all spending more to help them be able to “afford” the trips you do. I think if they were that bothered they should have just said they have other priorities and want to avoid spending money on trips like that.

I wouldn’t waste time and energy falling out with them necessarily but I would keep my distance from them, and be polite and friendly. It’s a trust issue and I wouldn’t want them using my money to make themselves even richer and myself poorer… I’m always suspicious when people go on about how poor they are but then the logic/background doesn’t make sense. I just let it go over my head. Obviously if someone is genuinely in a bad financial situation and truly on the breadline and that is evident etc that’s completely different, but I am not subsidising anyone at my expense!

So you're pissed off at them not wasting money on the stuff you would have liked them to spend it on?

For me the cheekiness about subsiding their son’s rugby camp and staying in a substandard place where a child was scarred would piss me off a bit. The other bits, well finances are very personal to most people and it’s only close friends who are privy to that information in my life. So I can see why this couple didn’t tell anyone else because frankly it’s no one’s business but theirs.

With me, I was in a friendship group with 3 other women. We all went out regularly for meals and other exerts and days out, mostly via Groupon and other meal sites. There was always one friend who’d always make a fuss about splitting the bill down to the last penny every time and it got wearing after a while. I found out she’d saved £20 or £30K during our years of friendship and though it wasn’t my/the others business I always thought we were close enough friends and spoke about finance so would share this information and understand about it. In fact it was only brought home to me by my best friend on an evening out with a few of us including the saver that she (saver) always split the bill to the last penny and my best friend called her out on it and I had a word with her as I felt it was rude! Afterwards I realised she had a point! The saver though would always snipe at me “it’s ok for for you you’ve got a flat and you’ll inherit that big house from your parents” whereas she is from a poor background and won’t inherit anything like what I will.

In my experience of having witnessed these parent friendships over the years there's always some bust up. It's either money or sex! There was a clique at my daughter's school and that all went to shit because of affairs. I suppose pleading a degree of poverty is potentially less destructive!

This is a work shy tabloid journos dream for a Monday morning. Hard to think that your motive is sellotaping the gang back together given the detail posted and the fact some of your mates are on MN.

I can sort of see her point though, they were pleading poor but squirrelling money away. The rugby camp and staying in a dangerous place are the only two I’d be annoyed at though. Don’t go on a shared holiday or get others to pay for a holiday camp if you can’t afford it.

Totally up to them to decide how much they want to spend on holidays but absolutely unforgivable if you've all been subsidising them over the years. I couldn't forgive that.

This friendship wouldn’t survive for me. This story means basically that all these years you did a colossal effort to accommodate your friends’ life choices whereas they did nothing like that for you in response. If it was such a sincere good intention why didn’t they tell you about it? Nothing wrong with saying : “Sorry guys we are really worried about Charlie’s and Lauren’s future so decided to save as much as possible for uni years. So we will miss the skiing this time, see you for barbecue at ours. “
Of course, people might say you never asked but year after year they were selling you an assumption that they were struggling for reasons out of their control but it was not actually true, it was their choice.

By the way I wouldn’t worry about DC so much. They are old enough to stay in touch without your involvement if they want. And they will go to different units anywhere where they will get new friends.
Go skiing.

By the way I wouldn’t worry about DC so much. They are old enough to stay in touch without your involvement if they want. And they will go to different units anywhere where they will get new friends. Go skiing.

Yes, this. They're off to uni. Leave them to mange their friendships.

Ideally, we will all save each month and I agree this is part of a budget - but they saved a salary.

I haven’t read the whole thread but I do wonder why you and your friends have all been so accommodating to this couple. Staying at crappy holiday lets, drinking coffee at home instead of Costa, curry nights when you’d rather be at a spa - how have you put up with this for 18 years? And the whole group has just obediently gone along with it?

How in 18 years has no one in the group just said - fuck this, next year we’re going to Florida - who’s up for it? It’s fine for some group members to break off and do different things, your frugal friends could go to a caravan in Clacton - maybe others in the group would go, maybe not. But everyone would have been invited and no one excluded. Why were you all joined at the hip for so long?

Why were you all so afraid of upsetting them that you deprived yourselves of doing the things you wanted - they must be amazing people because you all bent over backwards not to upset them.

You have so much more patience than me, OP, I would have got fed up with dancing to someone else’s tune years ago.

It sounds like you’re all slightly embarrassed that you fell for it.

I mean, it’s quite clever what they’ve done - but at what price?

Did you never wonder why two people with good jobs were always skint?

I couldn’t continue the friendship, they’ve spent 18 years gaslighting the lot of you. That’s quite a talent.

true, i guess its then down to individual perspectives