AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

Honestly, you all need to set a good example to your children.

This involves mutual acknowledgement of the hurt caused, followed by forgiveness. The angry members of the group need to find away of articulating how they feel and the couple need to respond by apologising for inadvertently creating this upset. You all come to a realisation that your friendship is more important than this.

It probably wasn't deliberately deceptive - they just thought they were giving their children what everyone else would be able to give their own children in due course (because of inheritance). You all breathe a huge sight of relief that you have been able to overcome this bump in the road and you become friends again. The caveat is that you all agree that more expensive social occasions will now be proposed and taken up by those who want to go.

The burn caused by shoddy maintenance is not their fault. It doesn't matter what the cost of the accommodation was, it is a reasonable expectation that the place you all booked to stay in would be safe.

This is 100% it for me. I'd be furious and feel really lied to.

Excluding someone because they don't want to spend more than £500 per couple is very different to excluding someone because they can't afford to spend more than ,£500 per couple

@ApisGuard you think it is fine to lie to your friends so they offer assistance?

because if you have a budget and you have a savings budget then truthfully it could be tight

I have a friend like this. Never puts her hand in her pocket and sits back allowing others to pay - always pleading poverty. Then makes big purchases or treats herself to very fancy holidays.

I don’t care how she spends her money but I resent her trying to underpay her share of meals and never offering ti buy a round of drinks or Return favours - for example she never buys the coffees or brings a bottle of wine. But is very quick to accept.

@ApisGuard are you one of the couple the OP is talking about?
Because otherwise I can not understand why you are defending lying to your friends for 20 years.

its not lying if your truthful in your view that you have eg £1000 budget and can only do so much then thats not lying its just that they dont say that the reason the main budget is tight is because they are funding the saving budget,

when i write im thinking of sheldon cooper literal thinking type examples

Has the op actually asked the couple about the £20? ( which I'm sorry it seems a ridiculous thing to get petty about over an 18 year period)! It may have just been a misunderstanding. I've subbed friends lots of £20s I've never seen again. I don't get that hung up on stuff like that.

Its the fact that they wouldn’t dip into savings for their child but allowed their friends to.

totally immoral greedy behaviour. If they said we can afford this but choose not to that’s fine. But claiming they couldn’t afford it is dishonest.

@richmanpoorman OP I’m curious about this “pleading poverty” phrase… did they say they had no money or that they were on a budget?

Gee you are SO judgemental!

What do you mean, "it's not necessary"?! Who are you to decode what they should spend their money on?

All those things you have listed are absolutely unnecessary, you're just projecting your materialistic values onto them.

Look, they've been smart with their money while the rest of you value consumerism more highly. You're not better than them because you decorate your kids' bedrooms or get them passports.

You chose to pay a paltry £20 to the kids' rugby (even though you now claim they never did sports 🤔) or whatever, again, because you assume that your way is the only way.

Try to respect the fact that people live differently. Not everyone is obsessed with appearing middle class, and we all know that those with the pretty houses and new cars are the ones with no savings.

Honestly, these people have done nothing wrong, the rest of you are just foolish for making assumptions about them, and for imagining that spending lots of money makes you a better person.

@Bellyblueboy I know a woman like that. She cycles through friends because as soon as people realise the truth, anyone with self esteem is no longer friends with her.

because keeping x information private and in your view if your budget is tight then your not lying your just not giving the full information about why your budget is tight its the word play and devil in the details and the assuming from the friends that is the issues

Gee you are SO judgemental!

the irony 😆😆

Exactly? What does it matter when you’re all spending £500 each on a holiday anyway?
you could have chosen to save some money but didnt… not their problem

@ApisGuard they lied. They said they were poor because they have a massive mortgage. It is a lie. They are poor because they are not saving one wage. Their choice, but do not lie about it to friends.

Do bear in mind recently on the 'how skint are you' thread that some people were busy saying they were skint when it transpired they had very substantial sums in investments and savings. So plenty of people on this thread may well be like these friends and prioritise saving over other things- what I don't like is that choices were made to accommodate the couples budget and as far as I'm aware st no point did they say 'look if you fancy something a bit nicer, that's ok we will sit this one out as we don't prioritise funds for holidays ' and would rather save 'all' my income- that would have been much more transparent and much fairer- I totally see why the OP is miffed- I would be too

"In reality their kids haven't ever been on a school holiday, don't have passports, aren't being taught to drive, did no after school sports training despite being talented, haven't had their bedrooms refurbished since they moved in.... none of this is abusive in any way, and they are loving parents and the kids are fine, but it is a bit sad and a shame as it's not all necessary."

Yeah tbh this all sounds a bit miserable for the kids particularly if they've grown up alongside friends who have had all these things. It's crap feeling like the poor relation constantly, and I do wonder if this is why the 1 DC "let slip" about their lack of student loan after 18 years of being the "poor" friend. You only get one childhood, I'm sure if they had the choice they'd prefer to have had the occasional nice holiday, not be embarrassed to invite their friends back to their house with the disney princess wallpaper in their bedroom aged 16, and have been allowed to do their hobby (which could encourage healthy habits for life, let alone great memories of being part of a team, a good thing to put on their ucas forms, etc) and "only" have a £350k deposit for their future house each rather than a £400k one.

Obviously different if parents couldn't afford it that's completely different, but £850k is making a very deliberate choice, and I'm surprised so many posters are applauding them as doing the "right" thing for their kids. It would be ironic if after all that effort their kids rebelled against their stingy childhood by doing completely the opposite, and the next generation were sadly in the same position growing up as their grandparents/great grandparents.

There's a reason that balance is usually the healthiest option!

@ApisGuard Truthfully i would not be friends with someone like you either who thinks it is fine to lie to friends as long as you can be pedantic and somehow claim you did not.

Yes, this. I'd be stepping away. They can live how they want, but I wouldn't be around to fund anything else or compromise on activities for their sakes under the circumstances.

Basically someone either is ethical and has good morals or does not. Being able to claim technically you did not lie, steal or cheap is meaningless.

Firstly are you sure this is 100% true? 850k house deposit? How much is the actual house then?.

YABU. You made a choice that personally I wouldn't of changed the type of holiday to please others even friends. I'm not rich by any means but a friend has mentioned before about self catering holidays... I have declined as its not for me.

Tight people are often like this so unfortunately it's a tough lesson to learn! Nobody is obligated to speak about their finances with you. I can't see how they can be so well to do and you didnt notice A) they are rather tight or B) they are loaded!

We will ask them if they fancy skiing and they can make a call.

That's a good idea, @richmanpoorman . The group doesn’t need to forego more expensive holidays due to this family’s financial choices. Invite them and if they decline, fair enough.

As I said upthread, true friends are happy when others are able to have fun without them. My bff is from a wealthy family and she sometimes does things with other ppl that I can’t afford to-but I’m not bothered, I’m pleased for her. 🤷

"In reality their kids haven't ever been on a school holiday, don't have passports, aren't being taught to drive, did no after school sports training despite being talented, haven't had their bedrooms refurbished since they moved in.... none of this is abusive in any way, and they are loving parents and the kids are fine, but it is a bit sad and a shame as it's not all necessary."

Can we consider the fact that their now adult children probably also look at life in a similar way having been brought up by them, they might prefer to save that spend on things and that’s valid? It’s just different than how someone else might do it and that’s fine too? God it’s just so judgemental, all of it

as they say the devil is in the details as an example its not that the files dont exist as they do its that you didn't ask the right questions on how to view Mr J. Edgar Hoovers files (this was said after a person was assuming and asking the wrong questions and illustrates the devil in the details and also peoples assumptions and broad guesses)