AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

So you see yourself as being the one taken advantage because you probably have been in the past (you may have mentioned it in this thread but I’ve lost track of who has posted what). In this case outside of the rugby there hasn’t been any paying for the other family, only aligning spends. That’s a totally different situation.

It’s good that you see the problematic behavior in being overly generous and over compensating. In the most positive way I can say this it’s great you’ve identified this and I hope you have success realizing your self worth is not tied to what you can provide to others.

As for the downgraded holidays everyone was free to make their own choices including the ski trip they all wanted. I would go so far as to say they probably should have a long time ago.

You (in this situation the friend group) should never give or compromise more than you are willing to and if you do, then an amount of fault lies at home

I find it more odd that you’ve all spent so many meals, holidays, days out, trips all so enmeshed over so many years.
Didnt any of you feel you could holiday without them if they couldn’t afford it?

What did the group think was happening with their money, you know their jobs, presumably what sort of value their home has etc. Surely you all knew they were making choices about what they were willing to spend on the group otherwise it makes no sense. You all decided you wanted them in the group and would compromise for them. I can't see they have done anything wrong really, you've just all misunderstood what's going on. Its up to the individuals to decide how deliberate it was to mislead. I'm not sure it was, they just had other priorities.

This is what I'm hoping we can do

Because the friend in the story lost their friends because they were honest they were saving money and it got old to the other group they weren’t spending at the same level and ‘moaning they didn’t have the money to spend’.

It’s literally the other side to this family keeping the savings hidden.

@Doingmybest12 OP said the couple had said they had a large mortgage. Some people have a minimum deposit and then remortgage for improvements, so their mortgage can be extremely large,

I've got close friends and we don't ever discuss our financial arrangements. They say what they are willing to spend and then we look for what suits that budget. It's absolutely nobody's business what they choose to spend their cash on. It reeks of envy to me tbh! Would the group feel less bitter if the couple had put money aside to fund a care home for a parent? Would they feel less bitter if they had donated it to a local foster home?

I suspect the 'budget' holidays were not that grim as otherwise surely you would have not kept doing them. The savvy friends were clearly considered worth making the (slight) sacrifice and I bet the kids remember the holidays as great fun and have hardly been scarred (except perhaps the injured child but as PP have suggested the injury is hardly the friends ' fault, but that of the accomodation owner). I bet your money- saving friends are really sad and disappointed in the group to realize their so called friends are so superficial. It seems like OP and her husband are the only true friends they have. If the others were only happy to endure the non insta holidays when they thought the kids were going to be in debt/financial difficulty then I think it's best that this has been exposed now before anyone invests any more emotion. If anyone has lied it's the so called friends who are not happy for this family making sensible and responsible financial choices for their children's secure futures. I say fuck the rest of the group and cling to this fun and cool couple and their kids who you also say are lovely and popular with the whole group! I bet the ski trip will be insufferable and tinged with bitterness and regret.

Also agree

I think the “Skiing 2025” will be the real test of your friendship.

True friends are happy when others are able to do something fun without them (in this case, a holiday that they don’t want to pay for). If they complain or are jealous, however, it shows that they always expect others to accommodate them and compromise.

I reckon they will want to go on the ski trip which will piss the others off even more! 😆

You know the thing about the rugby and the other occasions of low level subsidising? Don't you think they probably felt terrible but it had gone past the point when they could say anything? I mean 18 years is a hell of a long time to suddenly just say "Oh by the way.."
If they only live off one income they don't consider the second income even exists in terms of accessible money, so when you all became friends and holidays/outings etc came up, they simply told you what they had available to spend. It's like if I were to double my mortgage repayments. I don't have to do it but as soon as I make that commitment it means in my head I have X thousand a year less available to spend. So if my sister asks if we want to rent somewhere together for a holiday I tell her my budget is X. I don't tell her why my budget is not Y.

No because it's a bit bloody hard to hide a gigantic house and a swimming pool.

That's what the majority of posters are saying - there's no indication the others care particularly about the fact 2 of the kids will be in a better position than the others (short term, if the others have generational wealth this might balance out) - it's the concealing.

Don't know if it's because it's MN, land of the £100k jobs but £850K is an INSANE AMOUNT to me. It's not the difference between "oh I thought you earned £25k but you actually earn £27k." It's the difference between "I thought you were skint but you could actually buy my whole house more than five times over!"

They paid twenty quid for a rugby camp - has no one ever sponsored a friend's child to do something? You made your choice at the time there's another choice to make now

it's very insulting to the genuinely poor to pretend that not having the money to spend, and choosing not to is the same.Absolutely not!

I'm now in the same position as OP friend (used to be a lot worse off) I am clear that I am choosing to save. If people have an issue with that they can bugger off. Also I'm very clear on counting myself out if I don't want to spend on something.
I'm with you on this. There is a big difference between being broke and choosing to budget your money differently.

The situation with the OP isn't an issue about how people choose to manage their finances or expecting people to share the details of their finances.

The issue is the deliberate dishonesty and willingness to lie to friends for years from people who were very "open" about how broke they are and they can't afford this that and the other.

Everyone is grown up enough to understand that other people have different budgets and different financial priorities. Nobody has to increase their holiday fund budget or any other part of their budget if they don't want to because their budget is their business.
What's wrong is pretending to be poor and build a friendship over almost two decades based on lies and CF behaviour.

@decionsdecisions62 in what way is being unhappy at friends lying to you, have any similarity with being envious? They are totally different emotions.

No they wouldn't have excluded them but known that they could have included more expensive things to do had they known their budget was based on CHOICE rather than necessity .
They were being sensitive and tactful for 18 years and their friends must have known. They did not have to go into detail but they could have said that they are frugal people and please feel free to not to build every experience around their budget . They were absolutely aware of the situation within the group, allowing payment for the rugby club is proof of that.
It seems they were comfortable in allowing the group to tailor its activities around them for nearly 2 decades which at best is on the selfish side.
Everyone who is saying that the friends had choices, is none of their business or is jealous is missing the fundamental point regarding the passive dishonesty. The friends were trying to be nice people and now feel betrayed.

We nver, ever let on what we earn BUT we have and would never let anyone subsidize us either!! The cheek!

"I would say "we can't afford to holiday abroad" for example. We could. But then there'd be less money for other things we enjoy. Like going to the theatre,"

Makes no sense as going to the theatre costs more per second/minute and foreign holidays are often cheaper than domestic ones.
You would be dishonest to say that you can't afford to holiday abroad. You should say that you don't want to spend money on foreign holidays.

I don't think any of this really matters. They might have thought everyone was putting money aside for the kids uni - or whatever. Do friends actually discuss this kind of thing - we never have.

Their 'normal' was just different to yours. The rugby thing - yes absolutely they should have paid. But if that's all you can think of over 18 years, then maybe there was a misunderstanding there?

The holiday situation sounds annoying but, in groups, there are always people prepared to pay more or less than others. Even some mega rich people prefer to go camping because they just aren't bothered . They don't need to disclose their financial affairs! Different people, different mindsets, different priorities .

And just because I’m bored today… if the other families had invested all that saved money over the years… they could have a helluva ski trip 🤣. Sorry I couldn’t resist!

It does feel a bit extreme but I myself prefer staying on the "modest side" in terms of socials disclosures unless I know the other side is in similar position. E.g.skiing is often considered "posh" esp.if it is done in Switzerland. Hence I would simply say we went to Switzerland without further details, unless I know I am speaking to someone who won't be ahh'ing and ohh'ing.
And if asked what do I do I tend to be quite vague w/o telling "I'm heading xxx for a very large mutinational" ,etc..

So they haven't been pleading poverty or pretending to be poor. They have ( sensibly) prioritised their kids and ( again sensibly) lived within their means by budgeting. I don't understand the issue.

Nobody was lied to. The family had set the budget they wanted to and everything else was planned around that. The end.

You can't force other people to spend their own money the way the rest of the group wants to. Well done to them for setting their kids up for a good start in life.

If you'd all had nicer holidays you'd all be able to help your kids out even less than you already can.
They weren't lying at all, they had the budget that they said they had. That's like saying that someone putting aside money for Christmas is lying because they "could" use that money for a holiday and have a worse Christmas.
Supporting their children to get a good education and houses seems like a far better choice than better catering at holidays over the past years.