AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

@Livelovebehappy so he constantly lies. People like that are tedious and not trustworthy.

It is dishonest. They have taken advantage of the good nature of the group and quite happily allowed you all to subsidise them over the years. And compromise on things you wouldn't otherwise have compromised on. They're underhand, no matter how fun they are to be around.

I think this needs to be gotten out in the open, and then see if you can all move on somehow. I wouldn't write the group off just yet.

I think this. They shouldn't have let you fund them and should have not gone to things they couldn't afford though.

You get to decide how other people spend their money.

If you chose to subsidise them, that choice was your responsibility.

I suspect you're all feeling foolish because they are a lot smarter about investing than you are.

I mean, it was pretty stupid to do holidays you didn't want to.

It's interesting.
Did you ever say it would be lovely to spend a bit more and test the waters? Maybe they all thought you were happy. You all had a great time.
Did you ever say we are going to the nice restaurant/weekend away and totally understand if you cath make it. You can't really complain if you did, you can if they always pushed back.
We earn a MN £££££ salary. We probably live below our means. Will a friend get annoyed with me one day when they might realise I turned something down due to budget but I should have, in their opinion, been able to afford it.
The rugby thing sounds like the other dad just paid for it, maybe the paying it back conversation never came into it.
You admit they are lovely people and you had a great time. I bet the kids have fantastic memories and probably don't give a shit where they spent their time together.
Now with what you know, go where you want on
Holiday, let them know, and if they come, they come.
I bet if the shit hit the fan and you needed help, a shoulder to cry on etc the 'poor' friends would be the ones to help you emotionally when needed, and that's what good friends are for, not fancy holidays.

@PossumintheHouse except I am always reminded that many people on MN complain about a lack of close friends. I think there are a lot of people on MN who do not understand friendship or how to maintain friendships.

they were not dishonest just didnt give the full picture as to why, they can hardly blame others for their guesses

How are they 'damned'?
If you say they're being left out well it's their choice not to spend on the holiday. Nobody is damning them but themselves.
@Barrenfieldoffucks it's very insulting to the genuinely poor to pretend that not having the money to spend, and choosing not to is the same. Absolutely not!

I'm now in the same position as OP friend (used to be a lot worse off) I am clear that I am choosing to save. If people have an issue with that they can bugger off. Also I'm very clear on counting myself out if I don't want to spend on something.

These people may not have 'insisted' on being included but surely if they were socially aware enough to be liked, they knew that everyone was making concessions for them. I find that a bit stupid tbh I wouldn't sacrifice my hols for a poorer friend every time but they deliberately lied by 'pleading poverty'. They did not just keep quiet and let people make assumptions.

It’s tricky as it does sound as if the rest of the group was low-level subsidizing them for years. I get it, as I’m currently trying to organize a special birthday trip and it’s clear that one friend has a different budget to the rest of us. So either we all compromise or we subsidize her.

Re. The Skiing 2025 group. It makes sense to exclude them, tbh, as they’re not likely to want to spend on a more expensive holiday-and clearly no one else wants to be in crappy accommodation again.

Well if they had gone on more expensive holidays, had the coffees out, girls trips ECT they would not have had the savings they wanted.
I find it strange that everyone has gone against them. I think it is jealous.
They could have got a huge house, swimming pool ECT with repayment that cost similar it investment payments would you be angry that they chose to spend money on house instead of holidays?

I think it’s the fact you’ve spent £500 to be uncomfortable but to accommodate them whereas everyone is now seeing that they could have spent the £750 and you’d all have been comfortable. I’m quite big into not spending something to be uncomfortable or disappointed so the rest of the group may be the same. On the other hand, did they ever actively hide this set up? It’s pretty extreme financial planning, you’d think that if it came up anyone would have advised them that it was a bit OTT, it’s like they’ve had some bad advice in terms of how they live but then amassed this amazing sum.

I disagree.

The OP and her group of friends changed their plans for 18 years to accommodate a family who they felt were struggling but were not. A family who led them to believe this was correct.

None of the others were struggling from what’s written in the post. So they changed their wants to meet their friends financial restrictions.

My ex-friend was insensitive to the fact that some of us WERE struggling.

Kate, for example, was a single parent, working really hard around her parents and siblings availability to help with child care.

Almost every penny she had went on caring for her child and keeping up with her rent and bills.

She never complained but sat for hours listening to the ex-friend. Rude. Insensitive.

calling it "sharing finances" is quite disingenuous though. Do I give my friends my online banking details? No. However I also don't pretend my income is half what it actually is and make them cut their cloth to suit my (fake) needs.

There are enough threads on here about people feeling left out because their friends constantly want to do things they can't afford. In OP's case, the other friends have tried to do the kind thing by only going to the cheapest places, despite the fact they could have afforded to treat themselves (which is the whole point of going on holiday/for a meal, it's SUPPOSED to be a treat/celebration).

If my friends invited me to something I could technically afford but didn't want to spend my money on, I would just say something like "nah sorry I don't fancy it." If I had to bring money into it I'd say something like "I'm saving up for my holiday so can't justify a fancy brunch this month, sorry," But importantly I would ALWAYS add "but you guys go and we'll catch up next time!" I would never say "I can't afford it," when I COULD afford it but just preferred to spend the money on something else and I would never say "Oh I can't afford that, can we just go to spoons instead?"

If saving! friends were good friends, at some point in the EIGHTEEN YEARS they've been squirrelling things away they would have said something like "look guys I know you would like to go on a nice holiday/to celebrate your 50th/to that fancy restaurant, honestly just go don't worry about it, we don't have to do everything together, and we'll catch up at ours the following week."

100% agree. I wasn't surprised at the number of wide-eyed 'well they've done nothing wrong' thread.
Friendships are about trust. Not about technicalities.
Again, I'm in a similar position to them, I manage to extricate myself from things I don't want to do without 'pleading poverty'.

The irony is that people are saying they shouldn't have to disclose their finances. It would have been better actually, if they've done that.

However, they did the opposite. They were 'open', creating a false picture. I'm not sure if PP genuinely missed this, are too socially stunted to realise the difference or just want to kick the OP but. They deliberately lied and stated they were financially struggling. They didn't just keep quiet and let people assume.

I hate liars, and I doubt that any of the other PP would trust or want to be friends with a liar again. That's it.

I can see why people are upset. I’d go skiing- there is zero chance of the relationship recovering if people can’t be really honest now. Poor kids, they didn’t do this. Have people told this couple how they feel as clearly as some on this thread have put it? You lied to us, we supported you for nearly 20 years in self selecting out of activities we’d loved to have done, out of bloody coffees for christs sake, if you’d only been honest with us we could have compromised and still done some of the things we wanted to. But we didn’t, you managed to be pretty ‘open and honest’ about being broke so we’d buy the extra wine, host the dinner, turns out you weren’t honest at all. I understand why you did what you did, but not the lies and taking advantage of your friends.

honestly if after that they don’t host a large generous apology dinner or similar then it is hard to see how it can recover, if they are just clueless as to how treating you all like idiots for 18 years feels.

Yes. I'm surprised that some posters have missed the fact that others subsidised rugby camp for the son.

It's a bit cheeky to make a performance of being poor when you're really quite comfortably off, rather than just explaining that your priority is saving for college funds, but not sure I'd let that override an 18 year friendship, esp when the kids are good friends.

Exactly.
It's manipulative to plead poverty, then sit there like a lemon and watch people run around. I also would exclude myself.
But then again, I don't lie about my finances either.

So right up until the Rugby course I was thinking YABU. It is very bad form to take money from other people. They should have stood firm and just said ‘thanks but we will pay for our own child and as we can’t afford it he can’t go’. That said I have to wonder if one of the group begged them to send him as their children wanted him to go, so they thought fine if you want him to go and want to pay for him he can go. Is this what happened?

Regarding not going out for coffee and going to each others houses… honestly I think they have done you a favour…. So many women on maternity leave bankrupt themselves going for coffee, they only do it as they live in tiny flats and can’t accommodate groups. Is the problem that you are all just pissed off that they saved all that excess cash and you didn’t?
Your group sounds a little bit immature to be honest. I think the shock is that the other couple were being responsible grown-ups planning for the future and they now see they should have been doing it too. Too many people think they are well off because they earn well, but they have nothing left at the end of the month. This couple knew they weren’t rich so sacrificed for a better future for their children. Now your friends can’t pay for their kids university education (so presumably weren’t investing the £250 a year you all didn’t spend each year on holidays or the £1000s on coffee) and their response is to propose an expensive skiing holiday (which you already know will be an money throwing exercise and bitch fest about the missing couple).
If it wasn’t for the rugby I’d say YABVU to expect to know and to have influence over how someone else spends their money. They spend their money into a child’s saving account rather than coffee and expensive holidays. They do not need to tell anyone about this and certainly never needed to justify it.
I don’t think your group will recover, as there will be too much resentment because this other couples children now have such a head start in life. You probably need to pick a side. Just remember one side will be much cheaper to keep up with than the other 😆

I am perfectly capable of opting out of things due to budget without conveying the impression we are struggling, everyone knows we could pay for it but are choosing not to and they can do that without us. These people just lied.

The £20 for the kids activity was a liberty but you and your other friends can't spend their money for them. Nothing has changed. They were only prepared to spend a certain amount on a holiday with you whether they were saving wads of cash or not. You could all have decided you wanted to spend more and go elsewhere and you still can. But they shouldn't have to spend more money on something just because they have it if they would rather spend it on something else. That is provided they don't spend your money instead.

apart from the rugby thing, YABU

What was stopping you all from taking some independence and initiative and choosing a more pricey holiday without them?

My brother was a very successful accountant, never married, no children and has retired at 55. He pleads poverty constantly, and never buys new clothes or goes on holiday

Does he have a lot of friends?

Right? It's so easy.
I do think OP's group are somewhat wet wipes TBF to bend around these people all the time. But still.
Don't blame them for wanting nothing to do with them at all.
If people don't owe each other honesty, they don't owe each other friendship either. The 18 years makes it harder not easier as it'll all have been based on lies. Sunk costs fallacy...

They should have been more honest about their actual financial situation.
The deception is the problem here