AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

Oh OP, this is such a tricky one. Obviously, they haven't done anything actually wrong as they can choose to spend their money however they like. However, there is a staggering lack of authenticity in their behaviour. Although I would try very hard to move past this...I'm.not sure if I could.
Being secretive in this way is something I really struggle with and it would be a bit of a betrayal of trust for me. I think it's because they gave your group the impression that they couldn't afford it. This is very different to the reality that the were choosing not to, and spending their money on something else. That's absolutely their perogative, but I see it as dishonest.
I am fairly comfortable financially and I am very careful to smooth the way with friends and family that I know have less to spend. Sometimes this means not participating in something I would really like but they couldn't afford. Other times, I might offer hospitality that costs me time and money so that we can share good times together without them worrying about the cost. Because these people are special to me and I care more about them than 'things' I am happy to do so. On the face of it, these things are.little sacrifices but they have been done in a spirit of generosity and openness. I would be pretty annoyed if I found out they had just chosen not to be more honest about the fact that they were choosing not to spend the money, rather than it not being a financial possibility.
I think I would try my best but the friendship might need to be a bit fallow for a while. You dont need to fall out and you can be friendly, youre just not obliged to act as if you are not hurt. Like it or not, their lack of authenticity has consequences. I would also definitely go on the skiing trip if that is what you want.

This is it though. Shouldn’t they have got a different friendship group? They have exploited this group’s good will - over two whole decades - by pretending to be poorer than the Joneses, so that they can become richer than the Joneses.

The only cheeky part is the taking money to subsidise the child's activities- if this was the only occurrence of that behaviour then stating a budget - even if they could afford more - does not make them cheeky - it saved you money too - you could have put the savings made away for you dc but you chose not to.

I am surprised at the amount of people who see no issue with lying to their friends. I can see if you have very superficial friendships this might be okay. Otherwise expect the rejection this family is experiencing once their friends realise they have been lied to.

Some people like to save more and some people like to spend more. It’s the same with my friendship group.. maybe they didn’t tell Op because they knew she’s judgemental . Seems a really petty thing to fall out with good friebds over

Saying you don't want to spend more than xyz on a holiday is just as acceptable as saying you can't afford it. Same same.

My aunt believes she struggles financially. She doesn't have a massive pension so can't go on holiday as much as she would like or as often as her friends do. However she could downsize from her 1.7m home & release some cash but resents paying stamp duty. Would people agree she's struggling?

This thread has reminded of an ex-friend.

No fall out or argument or anything, but we just stopped invited her out.

There were 6 of us who used to meet every three months or so for dinner.

Nothing flashy, just a £25 maximum dinner somewhere.

She ALWAYS moaned about money when she came or cancelled last minute due to finances or just said no she couldn’t afford it. All fine.

But we KNEW she had three paid for houses, two cars and two big wages going into the house with no debt and one child who required no costly childcare.

It became boring and out of touch with some of the others in the group who genuinely had very limited funds.

We were aware though, that she was just saving 75 % of her wages, her husband was saving 50% of his wage and they would not under any circumstances break that rule.

If we hadn’t have known that, we would have paid for her to come on the occasions she said she couldn’t afford it. We would have ALL been pissed off, if we had and then found out about her houses/finances.

@LittleGlowingOblong I don't think they've exploited anyone's good will.

What's the alternative - if they had said "our holiday budget is only £lowerthanyours......cause we are focusing on saving up for our children rather than on holidays".

The budgets for holidays would have still remained the same. The choice would still have been to go on the budget trip or go without them.

@ItsAllAboutTheDosh I find it really weird.

So you’ve just illustrated how this family was damned either way.

So I see it a bit differently. I think they made it clear what their disposable income was and took a hard line on it. Aside from a £20 rugby subsidy (for which we don’t know how awkward of unwelcome it was) they weren’t subsidised by the group, they simply were unable to spend more on a holiday and the group were willing to ‘slum it’ to include them.

I agree, if they’d have been really explicit about how much they were earning, where they were choosing to invest and why, the group MAY have decided to ‘get the odd expensive coffee’, but I don’t share that much info with my mum friends, and even if I did, is it really that deep?

I don’t completely disagree with you, but it’s a tricky one!

so they were saving something like 50 000 per year.

I think the only issue is where you have subsidised the kids rugby camp or whatever..

Because their financial decisions come with consequences and they needed to accept those consequences which meant kid not going to camp, or them saving less.

The principal of it is fine, it not a bit extreme, but their execution has at times been questionable.

I wouldn't break friends over it, after 18yrs. But I might not be so accommodating in future.

Riiight… And then they could have increased their budgets based on the honest feedback from the couple friends who wanted to save.

I’d be pissed at them. They inconvenienced a lot of people over many years and frankly were dishonest. Of course, it’s their money to do as they wish, but instead of joining annually for holidays they could have been more considerate and join every other year with a better budget, for example.

Good on them I say, really are you only jealous because they made the decision to be very sensible with their money and do this rather than waste their money on bigger houses and fancy holidays!

The OP also agreed with a post saying they were subsidised at a low level eg others hosting more, getting drinks when out etc.

@PossumintheHouse Who'd have increased their budgets sorry? The other friends including OP?

This, it all sounds people are caring too much over something that is no one's business go to events or not but seriously give it a rest

I think the group sounds quite claustrophobic. It’s perfectly fine if they chose to save money rather than spend. They shouldn’t have let anyone else subsidise their children though!

@Broodywuz why the accusation of jealousy? It really does not fit.

So many times on here I see the - you are just jealous accusation. It is like a bunch of schoolkids. Is it a failure to understand other people's points of view so reaching for a vague accusation?

I do see what you’re saying @SoOriginal, but all the other kids only get one childhood, and might have had different experiences if their parents hadn’t kindly downgraded holidays to include the “poorer” couple. They should have made this clearer, I think.

But the question is pushing my buttons because I know I’m very generous (as a single mum no less) due to issues of self-esteem / over-compensating. So it’s an interesting thread to follow for the issues of boundaries, the ties of friendship, and authenticity.

Tbh, they were technically ‘broke’, as they had chosen to not include one of their salaries into their budget as was being directed to investments. My brother was a very successful accountant, never married, no children and has retired at 55. He pleads poverty constantly, and never buys new clothes or goes on holiday, but is mortgage free and lots of investments in shares, so I guess it comes under asset rich but cash poor. A bit like your friends, as they have discounted part of their available funds, due to being invested.

Yah. Good on them. Fuck honesty and long-term friendships.