AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

The OP did say some of them were on mumsnet 🙂 I’m dying to know what was said

but from that couples view point the savings could of been off limits therefore to them the savings and investments were part of a separate budget and therefore not usable

The difference is that if I knew that was how they chose to spend their money which they are totally entitled to, I would feel less obliged to try to do things cheaply to include them.

If I wanted to go on vacation with a friend who earns a lot less than I do it is having financial difficulties I would try to be considerate of their situation etc but I would be less likely to do so if it’s a choice to only live on one income while amassing a significant amount. And also the need to subsidize them as well.

They should have been open about their decision so others can also make the decisions they want rather than make their friends make decisions out of pity because they think they are struggling.

thats where its the devil in the details and i can see your point but strictly speaking they were not being dishonest its more that they kept their finances private other than they were tight budgets etc

I don't think the saving couple were wrong about setting a budget and sticking to it - that is their choice.

BUT- they knew the compromises being made by the other couples to accomodate them and would have to be extremely obtuse not to realise that this willingness to compromise partly stemmed from a belief that budget constraints were a necessity not a choice. It's a grey area but I'm not surprised your other friends feel a bit duped by them.

Hopefully this blows over. In the meantime, I'd stay friends with the couple (life is too short) but it is up to them to make their peace with the others. No need to be piggy in the middle. Enjoy your luxury ski trip.

I do! I have the money to do things but choose not to. I'm very open about it. I hope it encourages others to be more open about similar circumstances. I don't want any friends mistaking me for a charity case when it's self inflicted (unlike the couple in this scenario who willingly let someone else pay for their child).

Then again; I'm also open about my salary. I learned to be open while in France. A colleague asked how you know you're being paid fairly if nobody talks about salary. I felt like a prized English idiot. Our bashfulness around finances is embarrassing/

“pleading poverty” are the OP’s words. I doubt the couple actually said “We are pleading poverty”.

like I said, a lot depends on the exact words they used and whether they were actually misleading or whether OP and friends just misinterpreted.

I think a lot of this is about the group's interpretation and assumptions about what this particular couple have been saying. "We can't spend more than £500 on a holiday" doesn't mean they're saying they're poor. They're saying they don't want to pay more than that for a holiday because they are prioritising other things with their money.

Friendship is based on honestly, and being genuine and they haven’t been.

It’s hard to understand why they haven’t been. They could have easily been straightforward about it, so the argument that this issue was driven by a fear of poverty doesn’t hold true - it’s not the behaviour that is the problem, it’s the lack of transparency.

There is also a meanness and lack of consideration for others - the rugby club being the clearest example, but expecting lots of favours falls into this too. I’m not sure a fear of poverty is much of an excuse for taking advantage of friends either.

Saying that, your other friends are overreacting. The fact they were mean with money and not as honest as they should have been doesn’t mean they haven’t been good friends in other ways. Sending them to Coventry or making it awkward for the kids’ friendships isn’t called for.

Even without the overreaction the friendship group would be broken though, just the fact that the shared history you all had is now coloured by this knowledge.

The best thing you can do is stay out of the drama and act like an adult (unlike the rest of them, on both sides). Accept they are out of the group, but you aren’t, so continue to enjoy it - including more expensive gettaways. Stay friends with them separately, Tell your kids you are sad about the situation, but they should take it as a life lesson of the importance of honesty in friendships - and of course there is no reason all the kids shouldn’t be friends.

On the bright side, your kids will know who to go to when they need a loan..

The greed! The lies!

Eww. They’re supposed to like you. They don’t.

Of course all this behaviour is ‘for the children’. Cos that makes deceit and exploitation ok.

What a shame. They suffered financial instability through their childhood and then sacrificed an entire wage (and all the enjoyment that goes with it) just to spare their children the same early struggles… then lost their entire friendship group for doing it!

I applaud them for not keeping up with the Joneses!

@ApisGuard but not wanting to spend them is not the same as can't spend them.

But they were deceitful about it and got help from others. Do you applaud them for that?

I think YABU as it’s up to them if they chose to save. It’s not your business unless you were funding ythem through the years?

Calm down nobody was exploited (dramatic!)

The friend group had agency for last 18 years to make different choices.

I'm assuming that you more wealthy couples have had plenty of nice dinners / trips / holidays etc with your own families so it's not as if you've all been missing out completely? It's just when you have planned for the whole group you've had to go a bit cheaper to include people you presumably all like(d)

I must admit it's a complete parallel universe for me as I only ever go to cheap places and have cheap UK holidays and I've never been on a group holiday in my life despite having friends of 20 years + with kids of similar ages. I like my cheap holidays to be be away from everyone.

I think as a group you all sound financially secure . Don't regret all the things you haven't been able to do 'as a group' as it could start to seem petty and privileged.

As for the couple, it's totally fine to question the friendship due to their disingenuous representation of their finances but it's unfair to blame them for holding you back. You had a lovely, long term friendship for many years despite only going to cheap places.

true on the details point

@NaneChangeForThis I share finances, I said upthread I'm having work done so social spends are down, friends are fine with it & im with missing out on something if they want to do it.

@flatmop agree

The problem is, as with anything, people make choices on what they use their money for.

I remember as a student something being offered, and they said that if you couldn't afford it there was a fund to pay, so ask.
I was in the position where I did have the money, but I needed to have my tennis racquet restrung. I hadn't the money for both, and I played tennis 2-3 times a week, including for a team.
So I chose not to go, because I felt I couldn't ask for funds to be used on me when I had the money and was choosing to pay it on a hobby.
However I also know that one of the people who went using the fund, used to go to the cinema every Friday night, and if they hadn't gone for 4 weeks it would have paid for it.

So was I right not to use it? Were they right to use it? I don't think there's a black and white answer. With anything like that (eg free school meals), there's a gap between those who cannot do it any other way than use the funding, and people who don't need the funding and they can do it without having to cut back on other things.

Often when we say "I can't afford that" we actually mean "I am choosing to spend my money elsewhere."

I would say "we can't afford to holiday abroad" for example. We could. But then there'd be less money for other things we enjoy. Like going to the theatre, which we all enjoy. A friend said to me once that they couldn't afford to go to the theatre as often as we do. But they go abroad for all inclusive holidays 2-3 times a year.
It is a choice.

And actually I would judge those friends who aren't speaking to them now harsher than I'd judge them for choosing to save.

@Gwenhwyfar

I applaud them for putting their children first and establishing clear boundaries with their ‘friends’!

They never lied, they simply didn’t divulge their full financial situation. My friends don’t have a list of my investments, nor do they do expect to receive one. So to answer your question… Yes, I do.

You don’t need to share every detail of your finances to be transparent with your friends. All they need to say is we are choosing to spend less so we can save or something so we do not want to go on expensive holidays and their friends can decide if they want to go in the cheaper holidays to be with them or go on their splurge holidays separately.

The issue is they have made those choices backside they thought their friends were struggling financially and they wanted to support and include them. It’s the same if they want to go celebrate at a restaurant they have to chose a cheap one because they don’t want friends x and y to feel left out as the cannot afford it. If I know they can’t afford it because they are saving a fortune for their child I will chose the restaurant I want and we can meet at a cleaner restaurant once in a while. I would be more willing to go along if they are truly struggling.

I will not commit to 18 years of cheap vacations because one of my friends wants to save a fortune for their child.

So no I don’t need all the specific details of their finances.

I also go on holidays with friendship groups, didn't think it was unusual!

I think there must be some guilt in the group about having behaved so foolishly. Why have you spent 18 years planning your activities and holidays around another family? If you (and some others) want to ski then go bloody skiing! If one wants a 50th weekend away then she should just go ahead and do it!! It all sounds a bit juvenile and toxic to admit that you've been living in each other pockets and not had the maturity to do things as a smaller groups when needed. Is the family particularly "strong" personality wise? i just cant imagine a scenario where one family would control the group on everything from
holiday accommodation to coffee stops.

I would be annoyed too because saving an entire salary is extreme, and then saying they’re skint when they’ve got hundreds of thousands saved up is lying, even if they don’t want to touch that money they must’ve been aware of the impression that they were giving and they absolutely should’ve taken the money for the rugby camp from their savings and paid the other family back.

They’ve given their friends the impression that they were hard up and they must’ve known that their friends would be not suggesting more expensive holidays/activities as a result. I wouldn’t be able to trust them again.

i think your post explains what i was trying to explain,