AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

@ApisGuard they “pleaded poverty”

Oh and one of the reasons that I don't say to friends "I can't afford to do X because I'm saving money" is because people often see that as something they can persuade you out of. "oh go on, you/we deserve this" etc etc. It's easier to keep your own counsel when it comes to finances. Setting boundaries based on your own financial goals is legitimate and you don't have to reveal those financial goals to other people for it to be so.

Tough one. I don't think they were under any obligation to tell you their financial situation or up their holiday budget to suit you. I think you were all over sensitive to them over the years, when it would have been fine to say that you're going to do XYZ this time and whoever can go goes. You've all made this into a massive thing over the years, when they were just plodding on. (How you all over the years didn't realise that 2 professionals couldn't only be warning what you thought they were I don't know however.) And now this is seen as their fault.

The rugby camp thing is slightly different, but I think whoever offered overstepped unless they talked to the parents first.

I'd admire their grit to give their kids a leg up, and be cross with myself for being quite so pious about cutting down in support of them, when you could and perhaps should have done your own things sometimes as well.

The other friends sound cruel and childish, they're the ones splitting the group.

I 100% believe you all are jealous of them! It’s none of your business. How would you have reacted if they told you their plans 18 years ago? Making the boy feel bad for sharing something he thought was nice and you guys would be happy for him was really cruel. Hope it teaches the boy a valuable lesson how childish and jealous people are

which to them they could be correct, if the investments are locked or they have been saving for them and there budget does not allow excess spending then strictly speaking they could correctly say pleading poverty,

its just that people dont know the full picture as to why the their budget is tight etc

The issue here is the dishonesty isn’t it. The whole group has compromised massively for them on the basis that you thought they couldn’t afford the things you might otherwise have wanted to do. So you’ve clearly been massively sensitive to their financial situation when arranging any outings/holidays/meals. When the reality is they COULD afford it, but they just didn’t want to use their money in that way and preferred to save it instead. Which is totally their prerogative to do so but they shouldn’t then be pleading poverty and expecting people to bend over backwards to accommodate them.
I’d be annoyed too in this situation (and similar to you I have an NCT group of friends of 15 years so it’s definitely not unusual, out of 8 couples, 6 have stayed close).

To be honest OP, they have done you and your DH a favour. By having more budget friendly options, you were all able to go together.
How would a nurse and a teacher afford family ski holidays and holidays that weren’t budgeted.

I think the only issue is allowing others to subsidise the rugby camp. The rest is really none of your business what they chose to spend money on - just because someone technically 'could' afford the expensive holiday, it's entirely their prerogative to say what their holiday budget is - if that didn't work for you you could have gone on holiday without them.

The rugby thing is cheeky though.

Would you have all been OK if they'd discussed their finances with you?

@Lemonyfuckit i don’t think the rugby thing is as clear cut as OP is saying! If they really were trying it in the would have let the others pay for expensive holidays and their shares. I think someone overstepped abs paid for the rugby before the friends even had a chance to say no. Then they graciously accepted

We've been on a couple of group holidays in really ghastly cheap accommodation, not because anyone was particularly hard up (the reverse, in fact) but because in each case the person doing the organising was spectacularly tight-fisted. We had a miserable time, absolutely hated it and I will never again go on holiday in a group without being certain that the accommodation is a of a decent standard. So, for that reason, I would really resent your friends and I completely understand why you're so upset.

But I do agree re rugby.

I would be on the side of the group not talking to them, but I don't see how it's a problem for you because you've decided to be friends with everybody. Just see the rest of the group as normal and see the couple on their own when they want to. They obviously know what they did wrong.

which to them they could be correct, if the investments are locked or they have been saving for them and there budget does not allow excess spending then strictly speaking they could correctly say pleading poverty,

I overpay my mortgage & pay into ISAs, junior ISAs, savings etc. I can’t plead poverty because I know what the word means…

The rugby club thing is cheeky, but the rest is up to them. If they want to prioritise saving over nice holidays, then that’s up to them.

What utter nonsense. Surely noone is that stupid?

Although I remember Boris saying he was poor & needed donations for takeaways etc, mumsnetters didn’t agree with him though.

The other couples are just massively jealous. I don’t think they’ve done much wrong except let you all pay for the sons rugby trip. They’ve been massively canny and good for them. I hate that the son must feel really shit for his drunken humble brag. Poor sod.

You made a decision to spend time with them because you like them - at some point, spending time with them was considered better than not. Look at the person stirring this closely they're the ones to be wary of.

Look at the person stirring this closely they're the ones to be wary of.

Wise words

I think like others have said it's the disingenuity - bordering on lying - and the sheer amount of money - if they grew up poor they KNOW that having a spare £850k (more than twice the average house price) is not by any way shape or form "skint."

If they'd said I'm sorry guys we're tightening our belts and prioritising saving for X's education then at least you'd have known and presumably you wouldn't have been so reluctant to suggest more expensive things occasionally with the full understanding they could choose to come or not. But sounds like you didn't even feel you could say 'shall we do this for x's birthday' because you felt bad suggesting something you thought they couldn't afford - which is very different to them CHOOSING not to do.

If it was £30k, then that is scrimping and saving to give your kids a better chance - not £850k! Even if they'd "only" saved £800k-£820k that would still be an insane leg-up for both their kids, way more than the vast majority of people would ever have, but still have allowed for a few nice meals or a holiday in centre parcs rather than butlins! Also the sheer time this has gone on - it's not just the last year or two but effectively the whole friendship!

I think it's absolutely fine for you to still be friends with them, but equally understandable the others don't - I wouldn't feel guilty about going on the ski holiday or anything. For me I think it would matter how the saving!couple dealt with it - if they sent a message offering to take the group out for a really nice meal, and basically said something along the lines of "sorry if you feel we've mislead you in anyway, from our POV we honestly didn't see the money as accessible, we really enjoyed the cheap holidays and because we've never been on expensive ones it didn't even dawn on us that you might have preferred something nicer, but now we understand you were limiting yourselves so as not to upset or leave us out, which proves what great friends you are and we would really hate to lose out on 1 8 years of friendship over money...."

then I'd feel more comfortable putting across your and DH's POV 'to be fair I think because you have all grown up with money I don't think you understand what it's like to NOT have that failsafe of bank of mum and dad and have to do it all yourself so I understand why Jane and Tom did it although I agree they should have been more upfront. Can we all meet to talk it through?'

Basically if I was saving!couple and presumably wanted to keep the friendships I'd do a bit of grovelling and at the very least offer to pay back the rugby club etc.

when writing it i was thinking of if it was sheldon cooper saying it and he was being literal, which basically yes your budget can be tight and also that could be because you have savings and investments but as your friends only need to know if your budget can eg afford a £2500 ski trip then logically and truthfully you can say no my budget is tight and upto that point you are being truthfull its just that your not giving the full puzzle as to why so the assumption is with the friends for assuming

As you say they were technically skint. It's just that given the circumstances, they should have been a lot more comprehensive in disclosing why they were skint. They clearly haven't managed the budget well either, if the whole point of all that was a nicer life for the kids and they then couldn't send the kid to rugby camp from their own money. They've not exactly done anything wrong (apart from the ruby grift), but they allowed people to interpret the facts quite differently to the reality. They could have occasionally opted out of holidays and explained they were saving (not skint), so the rest of the group could pick a different budget.

I think the timescale is relevant. We’re not talking one or two summers here. We’re talking a generation a shared times.

There has been a lack of openness and authenticity over such a timescale, I would say.

exactly, but some friends dont see why others need a complete debrief of their finances etc