AIBU that our friends are much richer than they've let on?

[richmanpoorman]

Long and weird one, that has completely split a friend group.
18 years ago we attended antenatal classes and met a lovely group of people. Out of 8 couples in the class, 5 have stayed in the same location and we’ve all become super close. We see each other all the time in big and small groups and go on a holiday once a year. The children are all very close.

Now all our oldest are 18 they’re all looking at university. The kids were all out having a drink and the subject of funding came up. They’re all doing a combination of loans plus parental contribution except one lad who drunkenly admitted that his parents have a fund for him and his younger sister, for university and house deposits, of around £850k.

Under any other circumstances this would have been none of our business… except for the last 18 years they’ve pleaded poverty. As a group we are all in a relatively comfortable situation, with the exception of this couple who despite quite impressive sounding jobs were very open about struggling financially with a big mortgage etc. Therefore we’ve all been really careful. Every time we’ve gone out for we pick a budget option. Every holiday has been planned based on the fact that they could only pay half what others could afford so we’ve spent 18 years staying in some pretty grim self catering places. In context, say they paid £500 for their share of the accommodation- another £500 (or even £250) from each couple would have been a nice upgrade holiday wise.

It turns out that they made a decision to only live on one income, and to totally save and invest the other income. Apparently they have just therefore never factored it into consideration as it went straight into various investment accounts, so they were technically broke as it wasn’t then easily accessible. One year we all actually paid for her son to attend rugby camp as they didn’t have the cash. It wasn’t a lot of money (£20 a day) but the audacity feels huge.

3 of the couples have stopped speaking to them. (Tbh it might have landed better if the last holiday self catering place hadn’t had been so totally grim, with the younger daughter of one of the families injuring herself due to some shoddy maintenance….)

DH and I are more on the fence. While as a group we all earn roughly the same we do come from different backgrounds- DH and I a more modest teacher/ nurse/ bookkeeper/ florist combo compared to some of the others who did have significant financial help early on in life. This early financial help is clear in the lives they live- with similar earnings we have a much smaller house, state schools etc. Family help early on has made a massive difference to the lives of some in the group. The couple in question have explained that they both come from very impoverished backgrounds, with a lot of financial insecurity. Good degrees and careers landed them in a group of friends where it was obvious the impact money had early in life (eg house deposits, no loans etc). So they made the decision to do that for their children. They’re not materialistic themselves so didn’t miss skiing/ nice clothes/ smart cars/ home decor etc, so they just decided to “hack” their kids into a fantastic start in life.

Our other friends argue that the impact of another £1-2k a year on a few nicer holidays and dinners etc wouldn’t have materially impacted the fund, and would have meant that we could have had better group experiences, plus there’s all the intangible stuff like not suggesting we stop for coffees because it felt uncomfortable that they wouldn’t get anything, and being careful talking about other spending in case it seemed insensitive.

I’m so upset. We had such a lovely group with such a strong bond and now it’s all a mess. We’re the only couple still talking to everyone which in itself is causing problems. I’m posting here because we’ve just been added to a group called “Skiing 2025” with all of the group except this couple, which seems pointed (because we’ve never even suggested skiing before because of the cost.)

The kids are upset. The son is deeply depressed that he started this and they’re trying to stay friends separately.

I suppose my AIBU is “am I being unreasonable to be pissed off that my friends were richer than they let on?” and more broadly what would people do?

Ps- I’m aware some of them are on Mumsnet….

I agree. It does read a bit like a bunch of rich people throwing their toys out of the cot because they've just discovered their friends are richer than they are. The entire group have made different financial choices and that's ok.

I can see why you are so pissed off.

You were acting from motives of kindness - choosing cheaper options in order to accommodate their 'low income' and also not trying to make them feel bad about it by being as tactful as possible, thereby missing out on things that you or your family might have enjoyed along the way. Whereas all along there was another motive running in the background.

It's not the money or the right of people to choose to spend their money in their own way, it's the duplicity. Literally, being 'double'.

And yes, it is tedious to always be holidaying or eating somewhere that you don't really enjoy to accommodate someone else's budget when you know that the majority of you are willing to spend a bit more.

Unfortunately this is why many people tend to gravitate towards those with similar incomes and tastes. It's not about spending or not spending money, it's about the awkwardness that inevitably arises when people have different ideas on these situations.

I would be irritated that they hadn’t been honest about their financial priorities and very cross about the rugby camp.

Me too. He will learn a lesson from this. My son’s dad is paying his Uni fee’s and accommodation - 20k per year and he is fortunate. He’s learnt not to share this info as it sounds like he’s showing off. People say he’s lucky and he is, but the trade off was his dad spending 7yrs of his childhood overseas, where he got double his salary and free accommodation was so able to put money aside for their education and later on house deposits. Not everyone has that (myself included as I’m still renting until I can move in 2yrs back up north when youngest goes to Uni) and he’s learned to be discrete about it.

I think people…mis-representing their finances is actually incredibly common. One persons’ poor is another persons’ rich. I’ve had this happen with 3 friends doing what I’d describe as masquerading as poor when in fact they came from wealthy families and I’ve been generous to them when my money is all hard earnt. And it grated. BUT it was never explicit. They were not begging and I was generous and I’ve just learnt people do things differently. But 18 years of slumming it would massively annoy me. So would I still be friends with them…he. I think I’d be with the skiing crowd TBH

I think an awful lot depends on the exact conversations and wording

We’re really skint/really struggling/don’t know how we’ll pay the mortgage this month = dishonest

We can’t afford that kind of holiday/I won’t have a coffee thanks/we won’t buy lunch but will bring our own snacks = not dishonest but may have been misinterpreted

If all the other couples wanted better holidays why on earth didn't you say "oh we want to book x, and are going to, you are very welcome to join us if you can".

You can't expect them to take responsibility for the choices you all made of your own free will.

You have all found out why some people build up savings and other don't. Presumably all of you others had good holidays on your own and the other couple didn't.

I'm on the fence because the IL's, also impoverished, lived similarly, stingeing on everything, including food and it was miserable for their children. They didn't even make uni, getting a start in life, easier for their dc. When FIL died there was a million in the bank and their children remembered being hungry. What their dc have gained in one way, they have presumably lost in another.

I don't see how they were lying. If they were investing that much money into their children's futures, then of course they're going to have less money for holidays. People are just annoyed that this couple didn't prioritise them and holidays over their children. Adult life is going to be brutally expensive for these new generations. They need all the help they can get.

They sound completely mad to me

I get what you're saying here. You all choose the cheaper options all the time as you didn't want them to feel excluded as they were poorer, when really, it was their choice to save every penny and they now have 850k. I think it reflects pretty well on you, actually, to be that considerate. I would be understandably pissed off to suddenly find things are different/have always been different.

P.S I know someone who is very rich (eg three houses, very solid income (and I am a customer!)) but also frequently complaining to/'with' me - who is on 5k a year benefit income and generally there on my way from Tesco where I've had to choose between essentials - that he is very poor too. Choosing to save or invest money and thus not having much ready cash is quite different from having f--k all.

you have no right to judge someone and their choices.

it’s normally to judge lying though, at least I thought it was.

I would be pissed off too, especially if it was my child who had suffered the burn in the crap accommodation, accommodation that had been booked because they were too 'savvy'. That's really bad.

What a strange thread. They were clear how much they were prepared to spend on holidays, set their boundary on this and you accepted and respected it. You had 18 years of mostly wonderful holidays. One of the daughters getting injured at the last one is not their fault and could’ve happened at a 5 star resort - it’s insane to blame them for this.

Doesn’t matter if you “think” they could afford to or should have spent more. No one forced you to pay for the rugby - you wanted their son to join in (you admit the group live their company) and so paid for it, they were not prepared to/able to cover the rugby camp and that’s their prerogative (irrespective of how much they had in the bank). The rugby camp doesn’t even sound like a crazy amount, especially between friends of almost 2 decades.

Also - what exactly would you have the couple do? Apologize? To who and for what? Pay you back for rugby camp? Pay for a nicer holiday to compensate you for the pleasant but low-end ones you “endured” for 18 years? Take you to a posh pub because you now know they “can afford it”? So strange. I think your friends ABU. I also think it’s petty and pointed to exclude them from the ski trip, and I do sense some resentment/jealousy from the group towards this couple. It appears you’re actually more different than you thought despite all having similar incomes - I think this friendship group is over.

@LolaSmiles I totally agree- and friends have also based choices they made in order to accommodate this because they genuinely believed it was because otherwise they 'couldn't afford' to go- whereas it would have been more honest for the couple to just say they didn't want to spend xyz that everyone else went on as they prioritise savings. By not being transparent they have probably lost some loyal friendships. I myself would have been pissed off- not by their choices but by the 'pleading poverty'

It’s a shame this is impacting the kids.
Its a shame they didn’t tell you how they lived financially or at least that they were saving for the future and so money is tight.

One of your friends said an extra 1/2k/ yr doesn’t amount to much. But over 18 years it’s up to £36,000 so it does.

Its good to see you haven’t just dumped them and sad that the other friends have reacted the way they have.
Why not all talk together about this esp why they accepted the rugby camp money which is out of order.

If they really were much poorer would you all still feel deprived of posher villas or is it just that they have saved for the future and your friends haven’t.

This thread just shows me how entitled people are! Why should the friends have shared their financials with the group! They made a choice to have a budget holiday abs cheaper lunches, the rest of the group could have done stuff without them! I know my sisters have had weekends away without me as I didn’t want to spend my savings

This is a horrible thread OP.

Youre angry because you didn’t have as fancy group holidays or meals out as you could have had because they stuck to a lower budget than the rest of you… and the rugby thing aside… you’ve all decided they’re horrible people and liars because they were saving for their children’s future?

Whether the reason for budgeting was saving or paying off debt is none of your business. If your group friendship was based on what they could afford and not the fact you liked them as people then you were never truly friends.

The rugby thing was a bit low and by all means have words about that, but ultimately your group offered to subsidise when im guessing the kid would’ve just done something else instead and your weird need to do everything together caused you to pay for him.

yabu and so are those that fell out with them… unless there’s something else you’ve not alluded to

I agree.

The others could have gone on holiday elsewhere. They could have taken a second holiday together without the couple who would have said no to it anyway by what you’ve written.

It does read a bit like a bunch of rich people throwing their toys out of the cot because they've just discovered their friends are richer than they are. The entire group have made different financial choices and that's ok.

But the OP has said nothing to indicate the other couples are poorer or haven’t saved, she said they had generational wealth…

I think it's fair enough to say you can't afford to spend on things because you're saving. I often tell people I want to do a cheaper version of a thing, not because I have £0 in the bank but because I have certain savings plans which mean I don't have much budget allocated for fun. But letting you subsidise them is really, really out of line.

Basically when you get to my age, mid 60’s you realise that friendship is far more valuable than money. We all make life choices, some good, some bad. It doesn’t matter that you often stayed in cheaper accommodation or ate in cheaper restaurants, what matters is you were together enjoying each others company, hopefully laughing and making memories.

100% same over here. I save and invest a lot, but don’t talk about it. Friends would question why I don’t want to go for the millionth dinner out, expensive child “experience” etc… not a priority so not in my budget.

If they suggest somewhere out of my budget, I just decline, but always suggest something another time within my budget to spend time with the group.

Real reason you're all annoyed was because all these years you've felt smug and superior, safe in the knowledge that you were better off than this couple, then at the very final furlong they've nosed in front and out middle-classed you! And how! £850000 in the trust fund! Scundered for you all

Honestly, this is none of your business. It’s incredibly weird that one couple aren’t talking to them.

You didn’t have to go on the holidays- you chose to. Whether the couple flat couldn’t afford better or couldn’t afford better based on their decision to save makes no difference.

I wonder whether there’s a bit of resentment because they’ve managed to save so much while the rest of you haven’t, and perhaps you’ve all got used to seeing them as poor and it’s a blow to your perceived status that they aren’t? Either way, if a friend thought they had the right to criticise me over my private financial decisions I’d tell them to sod off. If you all hated the holidays so much, you shouldn’t have gone.

@richmanpoorman did they ever say they were poor ?
or was it more the money is tight etc ?
if they didnt reveal the investments and the money was tight eg due to not accessing the investments (depending on the restrictions or the main fact is what they were saving for etc)

then overall they were not misleading anyone , it seems more that others were making a number of guesses as to the reasons for the couples finances
if they say we dont have the budget for different eg posh dinners and they dont then strictly speaking they are not lying or deceiving , its just that they only give part of the puzzle and then others make presumptions from that intel.