To be upset about Ex’s new partner bathing our child?

[IcyCat]

Bit of relevant background: ExH and I have been separated for 18 months, hopefully soon to be divorced. We have 3 children (7, 9 & 11) and we get along/co-parent fairly well most of the time. I am the resident parent, our children stay over at his 1-2 nights per week depending on his schedule.

He's been with his new partner for about a year and they’ve recently moved in together. I’ve not met her, but the children like her a lot, so I’ve no problem with her generally. She has children of her own who live with them full time, they don’t see their father due to previous abuse (according to ExH).

Tonight I started running a bath, and DD (7) told me she didn’t need a bath, because she’d already had one with ”partner’s name” before I picked her up (at tea time).
So I said “Oh ok, daddy didn’t tell me you had a bath today.” And then she said daddy didn’t know because he was out at football practice with DS (which was 2pm ish so middle of the day?), and ”partner” gave her a bath, she helped her wash her hair and dried her off, dried her hair etc when she got out.

I feel a bit weird about this. Firstly I don’t think it’s at all appropriate for this woman to be bathing my young child, it’s her dad’s responsibility. Secondly, why do it while he’s out, and to put her in the bath in the middle of the day is odd anyway? I did ask DD if she had been doing some kind of messy play to need a bath but she said no.

I don’t want to accuse this woman of anything because as far as I can tell from the conversation with DD, nothing else happened besides the bath. DD wasn’t upset and told me conversationally, but I’m not comfortable with it at all and wouldn’t want it to happen again.

I know ExH will likely say I’m overreacting so I thought I’d ask mumsnet before I raise it with him, I’m sure I can rely on honest opinions here!

So AIBU to be upset by this?

I agree with this, a year really isn’t a long time at all. And if they’ve known this woman a year, then did they meet her straight away? I find that irresponsible. Why do relationships have to go at warp speed these days?

I would feel very stressed out if my daughter came home saying the gf had bathed her in the middle of the day, without dad present, for seemingly no need. I would be asking ex for a chat for some clarity and about boundaries and expectations surrounding new partners.

Op, facts are:

1. she isn't step mum. Your DH has only known her 18 months. Would most women on here be happy with a friend, neighbour, colleague they'd only known 18 months bathing their child for no apparent reason? No.
2. her own sons are 15 and 12 weren't home and neither was your DH and there was no messy play - even if she hadn't bathed the night before surely it's something her dad would have known was happening (they'd have discussed her bathing DD the next morning)
3. there's plenty of mums with no sense of boundaries. It's not always abuse but it's inappropriate. My friend's mum insisted on being present when she would bathe right until she was 16. Never touched her but just watched to make sure she was doing it right and it was still creepy. She is NC with her mum at 30. Her mum wasn't a pervert but she had lost control of her life with an abusive ex so wanted control of her daughter's life.
4. you mentioned there was abuse in her family or allegations of it with her ex - do you have the details? Such situations can cause families to lose touch with what's normal and boundaried

Talk to her and ask why DD needed a bath midday? It's not accusatory but it does need an explaination. Best case there really was a need and she did a good thing. Worst case you can explain how you'd prefer DD was bathed with her dad knowing only.

Sorry to hear that but that is one experience.

I've advised Op to contact them to ask for advice. It will be logged on the system. If there is a problem (which I sincerely hope there isn't) surely it is better to ask for help on how to manage the situation?

Abuse goes under the radar because concerns get dismissed. That bruise on the arm, the cut on the face, the subdued child, Healthcare professionals are now taught to actively look for and report any concerns however small.

Reading this thread has been a real rollercoaster.

Ultimately I’m thinking, if I was looking after someone else’s 7 year old daughter for a couple of hours in the middle of the day, the last thing that would occur to me would be to bath them. So I do find it odd that this happened as described. It’s just an odd choice of activity. Bathing your own children can be enjoyable but bathing other peoples?

However if there was jam or paint in hair or an accident or something, I would have offered a bath and probably said “would you like help with your hair?” My nearly 7 year old needs help with hair. BUT I would have handed this information over to dad as it would be out of the ordinary as an activity.

I do think it’s odd you’ve not met her yet OP. I know lots of people will bring this down to technicalities and technically on his time he’s the parent etc but it’s just nicer if everyone can get along and know each other and it’s natural to want to know the adults providing care to your children.

Could you ask dad what happened to necessitate the bath? Can you ask dad to meet her? Just to put a face to the name?

@BenjaminBunnyRabbit I do understand what you are saying and once upon a time I would have wholeheartedly agreed. However, it wasn't just one experience. There were years of us reporting abuse but nothing got looked into and we were classed as the malicious ones 🤷🏻‍♀️. We now won't report anything because there's no point.

I just wanted OP to be aware that nothing has been raised that would warrant getting childrens services involved at this stage and they would likely advise her to speak to the father about the situation as the first course of action.

That's really unfortunate @24hrCarer.

I'm not telling Op to report but ask for advice on how to approach the situation. The NSPCC can also advise.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/reporting-abuse/nspcc-helpline/

If you have ever had the misfortune to end up in family court then you'll know you can't just decide to not send children to the ex. My exh is a fuckwit and has done some ridiculous things but I can't not send my child as I'd be in breach of a court order. You have no idea.

Luckily @IcyCat has a good relationship with her ex and wants to keep it that way. That means communication. Bringing a new partner into children's lives is a big deal. Yes it is his decision and op has to accept it, but doesn't mean she can't ever raise a reasonable concern or talk about things.

Perhaps I misunderstood your previous post, my apologies.

Missed that bit. Then I do think it's a bit odd if there aren't other children having a bath as well. Maybe they meant to give her a bath the night before but ran out of time, so agreed the SM would do it the next day? I'd probably ask the question in any case.

That's the concerning bit - her dad not knowing. Because surely they would have discussed it the night before or just before he left for football practice that step mum would be bathing DD. But he didn't know so it wasn't a planned activity.

This.
This thread is very strange. We are bombarded with safeguarding information at school and sometimes I wonder if it's all a bit OTT. Surely most of us have common sense and boundaries and are sensible. Then reading this thread makes me seriously question people's thinking. No one is suggesting anything inappropriate happened or that the OPs ex's girlfriend (who cannot be a step mum at this stage) has any untoward intentions but she is really lacking in common sense.. The timing of this bath and that she was alone in the house with a child she doesn't know long and stayed with in the bathroom is odd. If the 7 year old needed to be clean before coming home to mum surely she would just turn on shower / stand outside/ give a few instructions /help where necessary ..and off she goes. Same as you would do if her kids had someone over on playdate....
There must be boundaries and she should consider protecting herself in this scenario too..this is just normal mum common sense surely ? There are 2 older boys in this house too.. I would also ask to meet her in a nice friendly way if she is this involved in the childrens lives.

Could you message him and say dc says partner gave her a bath yesterday afternoon just checking if she did?

And see what he responds with.

OP you can’t worry about stepping on toes in these situations it’s so important to speak up. Make sure you bring it up even if you do it in a very casual gentle way like

“ my daughter mentioned SM gave her a bath. Just wanted to remind you both she can bath herself. we don’t want her relying on adults as she’s made progress to bath independently and prefers it as well. So yeah please don’t bath her again ever” but of course you can word it a bit more softly.

Additionally, teach your child to refuse a bath next time and to do so in any similar situations where an adult is asking her to do something which involves her being naked.

I had a very strong sense about who sees what by that age, and even when a female doctor wanted to inspect me one day I asked my mum if it was OK. I wasn’t abused and didn’t have body issues but I just wasn’t for everyone seeing my whole body.

I used to work in social services and sadly one of the biggest risks to children was often parents partners. Normally men yes, but we are seeing increasingly that more women abuse than we originally might have thought.

Hopefully that’s not the case here, but why risk it even if you deem the risk small?

I understand being more comfortable because she is a woman… it the mum thing that I don’t understand. Are women who aren’t mothers more like to abuse children?

My sister.

I can answer that - the answer is NO. Non-mothers /non-fathers are not more likely to abuse children!

Majority of stepdads and stepmoms I came across who directly abused stepkids /were complicit in abuse, had their own bio kids too.

If anything I think the stats show mothers are more likely to abuse kids than woman who don’t have kids, just because they have easier access to them.

It’s nonsense “logic” like believing mothers are more safer around kids that makes children less safe, because people don’t have their eyes wide open where they should.

You either trust your ex or you don’t. If you don’t, don’t send the child there. If you do, you have to leave it up to him to parent his way, and if he feels he wants to include his partner in that parenting, this is nobody’s business but his

that’s over-simplified. Real life is much more complex. When relationships breakdown, mistrust is common, particularly where abuse, cheating or controlling behaviour is concerned. And unfortunately, of the child concerned would prefer that their step parent doesn’t get involved with bathing and seeing them naked, that is way more than the business of one of the parents.

This might sound mean but did she actually have a bath? Some kids don’t like getting in the bath! I say this because it was middle of the day so time might be unusual. Other than that I wouldn’t have a problem with another mother bathing my child.

Potentially there is another scenario.

Cmon 7 time for a bath.

7 doesn't want a bath because sometimes 7 year olds don't.

I already had one Mummy.

Daddy didn't say.

No Mummy daddy gf gave me one when Daddy was out.

7 has successfully negotiated getting out of unwanted bath.

I wouldn’t be comfortable with this.

He’s moved in with his partner after only a year, I think that’s really irresponsible when he has children. When did he introduce the kids to her? Straight away which is just stupid? Or he left it longer but has now moved the kids in with her soon after meeting. Either way, he’s irresponsible.

Now he leaves them with her to babysit and she’s bathing the youngest which shows a real lack of boundaries in her part. It’s really not ok and any decent person would realise this.

I would also talk to your daughter and thank her for telling you, and a bit of discussion about the pants rule .

On that case the op would need to follow up

@DreamEachNightOfSomeVersionOfYou

A year is a fair enough amount of time to decide whether you want to marry someone or live with them. You don't need to have a long drawn out dating/engagement to know whether someone is right for you. It's not at all irresponsible if everyone is happy with the situation and it is right for the family. Some people are already married before dating for a year. There's no hard and fast rule.

Equally, a year isn't too short amount of time to leave your children with someone. Do we have to get to know teachers and childminders for over a year before leaving our children with them?

So your 7 year old child claims they weren't in need of a bath and you're just taking their word for it? My 14 year old SD will STILL go days (not sure how many, we'd rather not find out) without washing if we don't insist she goes and gets in the shower. At that age she would play in a river and then come home and say she didn't need to wash. You cannot expect a 7 year old to have a good handle on whether they require a bath or not. SM obviously noticed she wasn't clean. Children demonstrate different levels of independence in different places, SM probably didn't know that she can do all that herself at home and assumed she needed help. If your 7 year old is happy then I don't know why you aren't.