In-laws want their deposit back

[ArnosLeach]

I married 5 years ago and I have a three and a half year old and a nearly nine year old from a short lived relationship.

Full background as I am anticipating the questions I would want answering.

The nine year old sees their father once a month for a weekend. I assume that my ‘ex’ owns his house. He had a vasectomy before our child was born. We do not communicate on any level other than if arrangements need to change. He pays a set amount every month but every month will buy shoes/clothes etc.

We moved into the house my husband had bought fifteen years before. It has doubled in value. Following a miscarriage last year we are trying to conceive again and we are looking to move house. We mentioned this to the in-laws a fortnight ago. I did not know that they had provided DH with deposit.
They have now asked for twice the deposit back comprising the original sum and the proportion of what that deposit has added to the value.

They feel that my elder child will benefit from their largesse. We are both completely gutted by this. A bolt out of the blue.

You're right, there are starving children all over the world Sandy, but that's entirely unconnected to what's going on here.

Keep the message simple: Legally, they seem to have no grounds but if they're determined to try, you'll see them in court. They've admitted it's a gift (try to get it in writing somehow just in case if you don't have it already) so it's very unlikely they'd get anywhere. Go no contact.

I know this NC thing is bandied about on here a lot but I would do this. I wouldn't hesitate.

Bluntly - they don't know if your son, his step-son, will benefit because they have no idea how long your marriage will last. This only hurts their own son at the moment. They're stabbing him right in the back for whatever reason.

Their calculations as to how much they are 'entitled to' following the increase in property value are random as well - not that you need to go into this detail but you have no idea what the property would actually sell for if you put in on the market currently, after costs, etc.

Their 'guestimate' is extortion.

I disagree with this. It isn't up to the OP and her DH to predict what inheritance the eldest child may or may not get from their biological father. They may well get nothing. It might go on care home fees for him. He might marry a new partner and leave it all to her. He might give it all to the animal sanctuary! Who knows?!

The PP and her DH sort their wills out for their children based on what they want to do with the money and assets they have, not on some potential inheritance that they don't even know about.

The £80k relates to what DH put into the house before marriage, so if he feels the right thing to do is to repay it, that's his business. I don't think you should get an opinion there. This isn't a matter of legality: it's family business.

If your ex wasn't on the scene, would your DH adopt your child?

If the answer isn't an easy yes without thinking, I can understand why his parents aren't comfortable with passing on their wealth to both of your children equally.

If the answer is yes, then it's clear that he needs to facilitate his parents building a better and more meaningful relationship with your first born. I mean, that's the real issue - that they don't see both your children as members of their family.

As a short term solution, I wonder if your in laws would be happier if you and DH could have mirror wills which ring fenced big gifts from his parents to their biological grandchild? There would still be a risk of him dying first and you running off with 'their money', but it would show an understanding of their position.

You would hope as they build a stronger relationship with both children that they would want you to amend the wills to remove those clauses.

I don't think you should be looking to cut the relationship here as some other posters have advocated. Rather, I think you should be looking to improve it. You have your little family unit which works - it would be even better if your in laws could accept that unit and be part of it.

I think the in laws need to explain what it is they think eldest is going to benefit from.

Surely if they are so worried about the eldest “benefitting” then tell them you will pay them back the £160,000.
Then ask them how this would work in future if they don’t want eldest “benefitting”in any way
In laws won’t be able to see dgc for any visits, family gatherings, parties etc as those would be seen as benefitting eldest as he would be eating food or drink they have provided and you don’t want to play favourites and only allow the younger children to go.

Or you could divorce dh and as the house is part of the marital pot, when it is sold both you and dh will be splitting the proceeds 50/50.
As the gift was given to dh 15 years before you met him then the repayment of the gift + interest would have to come out of dh’s money.

If on divorce dh is told they don’t need the gift repaying, he needs to get them to sign a legal document to say they will never pursue repayment of this gift +interest again
Then get married again and buy your new house together

If they freely admit it was a gift and no repayment was ever discussed what happens if you ignore them and just stick to your plans. They can’t exactly take you to court and your relationship is damaged already so what would change.

Yes people never cease to amaze me either. You sound quite silly.

.there are children starving in this country

@Sandy8765 are you 10 years old?

When I gifted my youngest DS £55k towards his deposit I had to write a letter stating it was a gift not a loan, and that I was not claiming any stake in the house. Surely your DH would have got his parents to do this when they gifted him money as it's a money laundering requirement? If it was a gift it should not be repaid as nothing to repay. If it was a loan the in-laws should have paperwork showing it was a loan. Let them take you to court. Without any paperwork signed by your DH at the time, showing it was a loan they'd get the case thrown out of court.

If DH wants to repay the deposit, ok that’s up to him. But not double. That’s massive CF territory.

Maybe that’s why they want double back? Just a thought.

That is absolutely shocking. How nice of them to make your eldest feel as unincluded in your family as possible. That’s horrible. Really horrible

Read the OP, you’ve completely missed the point of it. It’s not about greed - totally different subject 🙄

First of all the house might have been bought by dh 15 years before but on marriage he signed a legal document that in effect meant the longer he was married and if he had children with his wife then the house was not 100% his on divorce.

The inlaws admit they gifted their ds £80,000 not £60,000 to buy the house
A gift means that you won’t get the gift back

They have more than likely signed a mortgage form to say they will not be pursuing repayment of this money.

What has children starving in this country got to do with anything.

You might not like the legalities of marriage and think even if you marry you should keep everything in your name on divorce but the law in the UK is what you have to follow not what people think is right or moral

This. And the fact that the situation is largely your husband's decision. It was his house, purchased because of a gift from his parents.

If he wants to repay them he needs to discuss that with them and how doing so will put him and all his children in a worse financial situation for many years. Is that fair?

He needs to speak with them.

I think it's reasonable that the grandparents expect that money given by them to their son goes to their biological grandchildren rather than any step children.
However, they can not dictate that that does happen, nor that their son gives back the gift.

Surely once you hand over £££ it's yours to do what you want with it?

Don't talk wet.

Firstly, the law says that in the event of divorce, the house would be treated as the marital home and both of them would have a financial interest, so yes, it is OP’s house.

Secondly, you don’t seem to have got the gist of what the OP is saying. The money - £80,000 was given to their son as a gift. They gave the same to his siblings - as gifts. Therefore once it passed from the PiL’s hands, it was no longer their money, but belonged to the recipient. PIL are not just asking for the £80,000 back, but double that - £160,000 to allow for the rise in value of the property. To my knowledge, gifts are not given with the expectation of getting them back at 100% interest rate years later, and her DH’s siblings are not being asked to repay their own gifts.

The reason given for asking for the money back, is that the OP has a child by a previous relationship and PiL don’t want that child to benefit from their money, because they are not a biological grandchild.

The fact that there are starving children in the world has absolutely no bearing on this issue and provides no justification for what PiL are trying to do, and I suspect your motive for posting as you did, wasn’t altruism, but jealousy.

Could he even pay them outright? Can you just get a loan for that amount of cash against your house? Goodness knows what the interest rate would be and if he said it was to repay a loan they'd ask for the paperwork, I am sure, to prove it. Which he/they doesn't have.

I THINK when we have increased our mortgage to do building works I had to show some kind of a contract around it.

The aggro and inconvenience and stress around all of this for your DH would be incredible.

Has something happened to trigger this?

It's not thought through.

You could move to a cheaper area & buy a bigger property
You & your DH give all of your children 80k each in trust until they are adults (includes your eldest)

This would be exactly what his parents have done

His parents can ask for the moon on a stick, but they cannot force anyone to do anything, unless there was a written agreement !

Your DH needs to speak to his parents.

Tell them how disappointed he is on how they are treating his family differently to his siblings.
Point out that the house was bought years before he had a family unit.
Point out to them that you are a happy family unit and why would they penalise the whole family and their quality of life because 1 much loved member, who is a young child who loves his DPs, is not genetically related to them.
Tell them how their request has deeply affected how he sees his parents, who he did not realise were so financially callous.

All the above needs to be said to them

Do you think his siblings would be on the same side as your DH? If so, I would get them onboard.

I don't follow the IL's logic at all.

I could possibly understand if they thought that the original 80k was a prepayment of inhertiance, and they now see the possibilty of some of that going to your child. This would make sense if they were asking for the 80k back and then they were planning to leave this then to DH's biological child...but to ask for 160K back doesn't follow at all!!

When I say I understand, I certainly don't mean I agree - they are weird and I would be really offended that they were going to such lengths to make sure that my child didn't receive a percieved benefit of something.

BTW - I would absolutely turn down this request for money as it would absolutely impinge on your family's quality of life and legally it is un-enforcible

I'd bet it's because they see OP's DH treating both the DC equally. That's what a decent man would do. My DH treats my DC wonderfully well. My MiL has even put my DC in her will equally to her biological DGC. In return my DC love MiL with all their hearts. My mum is dead as is their paternal Grandmother so MiL is their only Nanny and what a great Nanny she has been. OP I'd tell your nasty in-laws who seem to be trying hard to split your family up, they will never see you or any of your DC again and when they are grown up you will tell them why.

To be honest, I think if the PiL are well off enough to be giving this type of gift to their children, they can well do without this money. The fact that they’re asking for double the amount back because the property holds a lot of equity makes them opportunists - this isn’t need, it’s greed, and the motivation is stopping a step child from benefiting from even a penny of what was given. How awful that his parents are so financially focused as to treat their own son this way, and to single out a child for different treatment - it’s despicable.

If it were me, I would forget moving home and I’d stay put until PiL popped their clogs. Maybe extend and improve as need and funds allow. But I’d make it impossible for them to get a penny back.