In-laws want their deposit back

[ArnosLeach]

I married 5 years ago and I have a three and a half year old and a nearly nine year old from a short lived relationship.

Full background as I am anticipating the questions I would want answering.

The nine year old sees their father once a month for a weekend. I assume that my ‘ex’ owns his house. He had a vasectomy before our child was born. We do not communicate on any level other than if arrangements need to change. He pays a set amount every month but every month will buy shoes/clothes etc.

We moved into the house my husband had bought fifteen years before. It has doubled in value. Following a miscarriage last year we are trying to conceive again and we are looking to move house. We mentioned this to the in-laws a fortnight ago. I did not know that they had provided DH with deposit.
They have now asked for twice the deposit back comprising the original sum and the proportion of what that deposit has added to the value.

They feel that my elder child will benefit from their largesse. We are both completely gutted by this. A bolt out of the blue.

Nasty bastards. They’re unhappy your eldest child is benefiting from a gift they gave 15 years ago?

This is your husband’s discussion to have but I wouldn’t want anything to do with them again.

Your OP and updates are really sad to read. I'm so sorry you're facing this. What a slap in the face. IL's are punishing their DS (your DH) for having a relationship with a woman who had a child from a previous relationship, punishing you but also punishing your DD who is completely innocent in all this. Your IL's attitude is really really shocking. It's quite breath taking.

And what happens if DH's siblings marriages break down in the future and they find someone else who has children already so blend their families? What do the parents do with the previous gifts then? If they are worried that their 'hard earned' money is going to be given/spent on grandchildren that aren't biologically theirs, then they should have ensured that the gift was ring-fenced when it was given. What horrible people they are.

Have they said out loud that the reason they want their money back so that your eldest, their non biological GC, can't benefit from their deposit money?

If so they are risking a very difficult relationship forever with their DS, DDiL and bio GC all for the sake of making a point about treating their step GC differently.

Is making that point really worth it?

The following suggestion would be a huge compromise from your side and I think you owe these petty people nothing, but just for the sake of keeping the peace: work out the percentage of the original house price provided by ILs, let's say that was 40%, that 40% is to be divided amongst your joint children when your DH or you die, and the other 60% which belongs to you and your dh is divided between your joint children plus your first child. That way, their "investment" will only go to their biological grandchildren. See if that appeases them (it should). Just tell them that's what you'll do. By the time you actually have to do it they\ll be long dead. Don't give it a second thought.

This sounds really upsetting for you all OP, I'm sorry. Personally I'd tell them to get fucked and go low contact. Not only are they punishing you, your eldest and your DH for having the audacity to have a life before your DH but their own grandchild too.

Can only agree that in law and principle that a gift given 15 years ago is a gift. PiLs have no right to ask for it to be returned, with our without interest. As PPs have pointed out, he could have sold the house and spent it backpacking around the world, p*ssed it up a wall, lost it gambling or in a failed business. It is no longer their business how he choses to use it or who it benefits.

What is desperately sad is that they have soured their relationship with their son, made clear that they may harm the relationship your joint child will have with their half sibling, and have possibly also harmed that between your DH and his siblings.

As a former step-child I am upset on behalf of your eldest child. My step dad never treated me any differently to the children he had with my mother. (My bio dad was not in the picture at all, admittedly). His family treated me as his eldest child - and given he was from an Iranian muslim family where birth order signifies certain status, and where both he was the eldest son and I was thus the eldest child, this was a huge indicator of my acceptance and the unconditional love I received. My sisters and I do not recognise the ‘half’ status of our relationship and I dearly hope your DCs have such a close and loving bond as we do.

Am so sorry your in-laws were so entrenched in whatever bigotry that they felt it was worth alienating their son and grandchild over, but don’t give it or them another second of brain space. Let DH make clear they are out of order - and share this with his siblings so that they know their parent’s gift was conditional.

That’s where I’d get to.

“sure, you can have your gift back, but that’s the last you’ll see or hear of me.”

but seriously, dh needs to say that as is absolutely clear, it was a gift, without strings or limitations, and it’s not at all acceptable to place restrictions or limitations on any gift now. If I were DH I’d say that he is aware they financed sibling’s kitchen and THAT kitchen will benefit others when and if they house gets sold, or are they asking for the cabinets back if they move?

furthermore, I’d tell them that they have irrevocably damaged the relationship between us and them and that now their true mean hearted and discriminatory selves have been exposed, I’d never see them in the same way again

We are being asked because they do not wish my eldest to benefit from their money.

They acknowledge the money was a gift and they acknowledge that there is no legal basis for the request.

I'm sorry, OP. What utter nasty, nasty arsehold behaviour from them.

I thin you might be wise to avoid any of this conversation with them yourself - anything you say will be translated by them into you being a grabby fucker and likely to entrench them into their position.

If I were in your shoes I'd be asking your H to tell them exactly what he thinks of their shitty request and the fact that this is in danger of damaging their relationship with their son and their grandchild(ren), let alone his wife and his stepchild. That £80k (or £160k) is of use to their son and his family right now, and their actions will force their son and their grandchild(ren) to downgrade their opportunities if they were to claw 160k out of you at this point.

They gave the money as a gift 15 years ago. They didn't jointly invest it in property with conditions about reclaiming the money and the interest when they made their GIFT, They didn't attach conditions to it about "oh but we want it back with interest if you marry somebody who already has a child that isn't yours!". They don't get to make demands on what happens to it now, and they certainly don't get to make demands that it excludes any individual, and expect that those demands won't have a cost to their relationship with their son.

A much more reasonable and proportionate thing for them to have done would have been to have had a carefully worded chat with their son about their intention for that £80k being to benefit him and any direct descendants he had, and expressing their hope that he would ensure that the portion of his estate that came from them would be passed to his own descendants upon his death without being diluted by being shared with any step children. They would still have ZERO rights to demand that he did as they wished, but I imagine it would have been better received than demanding £160k from him now with the explicit intention to ensure that his stepchild doesn't see any benefit from it, in terms of living in a house funded by it or of inheriting.

If I were your H and I also felt that I wanted to take legal steps to ensure that only my blood children benefited from either all of my estate or a proportion inherited from my parents, I'd have a chat with them reassuring them that this was either already or would be taken care of in my will, whilst also making it clear that their current demand was absolutely outrageous and extremely damaging to my relationship with them. Under no circumstances would I give £160k to them, and I'd only give £80k to them if this was the final straw and I was telling them to fuck right off with their open hatred towards my wife and stepchild. Please do show him my post if you think it would help him.

So so so nasty. Them asking for their gift back from 15 years ago is terrible. But adding ‘interest’ to it is next level.

There is no going back to a normal relationship now in any of the possible scenarios.

1. You give them £160k - the amount they absolutely do not deserve/should not be asking for/are not entitled to. Alternatively, think about taking it away from your children’s inheritance. Is this really how much your ‘pride’ is worth (as some people suggested that if you can afford it, you should give it to them to shut them up).
2. You give them £80k - middle ground, nobody’s happy, they still think you owe them money but yet got rid of a considerable amount of £.
3. You give them nothing. I think it’s the best option. After their request it’s clear where your relationship stands, how they treat your husband and his family. Why bother with giving them anything?

Their behaviour is disgusting. Maybe they’ll start asking for repayments for your DH’s school fees? When he was fed as a child? Christmas presents?

Not that you're DH should even be contemplating giving £80k back; where have the IL's got the figure of £160k (i.e. double the deposit amount) from?! That's crazy.

If you go back 20 years to 2003, the highest interest rate is 5.75% in 2007, and the lowest interest rate is 0.10% in 2020. The average interest rate in this period would be around 3.1%. So 3.1% of £80k is £2,480, compounded would be £47,284 after 15 years. So a total repayment of £127,284. My maths isn't the best so someone will be along shortly to tell me where I've gone wrong but them asking for £160k based on any calculation is wrong!

I will admit that I feel unhappy that my brother's remarriage means that the money passed down from our parents and grandparents will halve my nephews' inheritances (all step-siblings are adults though). My family was very poor and every penny was worked for and saved with the hope of making their descendants' lives easier. I'd not say it out loud though.

Your in-laws want to equalise their gift to all of their grandchildren, in which case they need to look at their wills. They can't take back with interest their gift to their son without becoming liable for capital gains tax. They should also consider whether their grandchild's life will be damaged by their behaviour - conflict within the family, stress between their parents and less contact with their grandparents.

People never cease to amaze me, its not your house its your husbands, his parents gave him £60,000 and you say oh they dont need their money, you dont want them to have the money back even tho its not your money..you are greedy greedy greedy, your house is worth £650,000 and you still want more..there are children starving in this country

So you think they should give the money to the starving kids instead?

Your DH was given the money and he has benefitted from it to the same extent as his siblings. Now his parents want to punish him for his choice of wife being someone who already had a child? That's monstrous.

Has he asked his siblings for their views? If they're likely to be sympathetic to him, they might advocate against their parents on his behalf.

I don't know what I'd do in that situation. I definitely wouldn't feel inclined to return the money, as much because it was asked of me as for its own sake. But I can't imagine having parents who would ask such a thing either.

I'm sorry you are in this position OP. Your relationship with your PIL will be tarnished whatever your DH decides.

There's quite a gap between conception and birth.

It was a gift I'd tell them to get stuffed personally.
If it was never agreed to give back they have no right to it anymore.

Please feel free to bankrupt yourself ending childhood poverty in the UK, but keep your holier than thou attitude to yourself, Sandy.

Have you actually understood the OP? I don't think you have. It is OP's house, they are married. The parents gifted £80k to their son long before OP was on the scene. They have admitted it was a gift but they want it back because they don't want OP's child to benefit in any way. HOW does that make OP "greedy". They have been cruel and hurtful and there is no coming back from that. What on Earth has any of it got to do with starving children?

What nasty people.

My first inclination on seeing the thread title - as I was assuming it was a loan - was to say to pay it back asap and have done with them. But a gift is a gift and as they acknowledge that they would get nothing from me.

I would not worry about damaging my relationship with them as they did the damage when they said they do not wish my eldest to benefit from their money.

They sound awful, they obviously haven’t accepted your child as part of the family, my sister has an older child from a previous relationship and she is treated exactly the same as one of their own children by the in laws they adore her, they are showing you their true feelings and character, I feel for you all

So this is up to your husband and you to sort out wills which should reflect the parentage. Blended relationships always come with issues but its up to you both to sort this now. I agree your eldest should not get the same proportion of money as your youngest child - as your eldest may eventually get inheritance from their fathers side which your youngest child wouldn't get. Your IL's are being ridiculous asking for their gift back, plus interest - i'd be cutting all ties with them to be honest. But it is up to you to sort finances/wills with your husband now.

You're wrong in everything you say here (for one thing, it was £80K, not £60K).

The OP has been dreadfully hurt by her PiLs' attitude to her and her child.

THAT is the issue. But crack on with your stunning whataboutery.

You really only have two options here.

You give some/all of the £160k back and terminate the relationship.

You keep the gift and terminate the relationship. (DO THIS ONE)

Either way, they have totally burnt their bridges. I would not be able to bring myself to be in the same room as them ever again and if my husband didn't back me, i suspect it would be curtains for my marriage as well.

It’s not their money anymore, it’s your DH’s to do with as he wishes. By all means they can write whatever they like in their will so that their current assets will be distributed as they see fit. Your DH can write in his will as he sees fit. I’m so angry on your behalf OP it’s a vile attitude to have.

does it bother them that your child benefits from living in the house? Perhaps to appease them you should build a shed at the bottom of the garden for said child to live in? Although that would still be on the property so perhaps still not enough for them 🤷‍♀️

If he had taken the 80k as a loan he would t have had to pay double back. It’s ridiculous to expect him to pay £160