In-laws want their deposit back

[ArnosLeach]

I married 5 years ago and I have a three and a half year old and a nearly nine year old from a short lived relationship.

Full background as I am anticipating the questions I would want answering.

The nine year old sees their father once a month for a weekend. I assume that my ‘ex’ owns his house. He had a vasectomy before our child was born. We do not communicate on any level other than if arrangements need to change. He pays a set amount every month but every month will buy shoes/clothes etc.

We moved into the house my husband had bought fifteen years before. It has doubled in value. Following a miscarriage last year we are trying to conceive again and we are looking to move house. We mentioned this to the in-laws a fortnight ago. I did not know that they had provided DH with deposit.
They have now asked for twice the deposit back comprising the original sum and the proportion of what that deposit has added to the value.

They feel that my elder child will benefit from their largesse. We are both completely gutted by this. A bolt out of the blue.

Your DH needs to sort it out. They gave him the money so it is up to him to decide what he does.

If I were you I would try not to get involved at all apart from to support his decision, whatever it is.

Return the money. Don't give anyone power.

I agree with this. ‘Gifts’ often come with strings, although unspoken ‘strings’…

They sound thoroughly unpleasant. I'm not sure there's an awful lot of point in giving the money back to preserve the relationship; surely their behaviour has soured the relationship beyond repair.

I don't agree with PPs that it's necessarily terrible to have a different kind of relationship with step GC than biological GC. It's fair enough if they just don't have the same depth of feeling for DIL's existing child as they do for the offspring of their own kids. That doesn't mean it's OK to treat people badly or to be petty and mean, but for example my mum doesn't give my SIL's older kids the same amount of Christmas presents that she gives her actual GC. They have their own GPs who they are close to, and my mum just doesn't have that kind of relationship with them. That's OK! Everyone is happy with the way things are. Nobody feels sad or left out.

I also don't think it's terrible to want your own GC to benefit from your money and not your children's step kids. But if that's what the PILs wanted, they should have given the £80k in a way that addressed that issue at the time. This was extremely foreseeable, given how many people enter into blended family situations. They should have made clear that this wasn't a gift, that it was actually intended as inheritance for future GC and should have sought financial advice on how to protect it for GC. As it is, they just gave it as a gift and have therefore got no right to dictate what their son does with it. He could give the whole £80k to your child if he wanted. He could spend it all on trainers and leave nothing for any of the kids. It's not PIL's money anymore.

Although I can fully understand why they would want their GC alone to inherit this money one day (even though that's not their decision to make), their motivation for asking for double the original amount is much harder to fathom. It seems very punitive. They are willing to majorly disrupt the financial stability of their GC's family, when it's the GC whose interests they are claiming to care about.

It's a horrible situation and I'm not surprised you're both hurt. Tbh I'd keep the money and completely opt out of any further contact with them. I'd just let DH see them without me if he still wanted to.

I think your DH should return the original value but not the increase then cut them off. You both seem in a decent financial position. They are aware it's a gift and they don't have a leg to stand on but I would no longer want any or their money in the house. But that's it. Or possibly the money with interest. Imagine stewing bitterly over a 9 year old for years then pouncing when you are about to move. This is however an example of why it's important to have these financial conversations carefully early on

I think its a red flag when 'step' grandparents do not ask for the 'step' grandchild to call them their grandparent name ie Grandma or Nanna sort of thing. It's setting them up to position them as not their grandchild.

Regardless of this money issue - your husband needs to sit his parents down and tell them he considers your son to be his son too - just as much as his current or future biological children and he expects them to treat your son like family.

He needs to tell them that he will expect all his children to be treated equally and he will not accept any different treatment for his biological children.

In our family all children, biological or not, are treated as equal and so in my opinion it should be. In fact I think my m'n'law's favourite grandchild is her first - who she met when he was 4 years old and at the time her son's girlfriend's child.

I really see the stepchild thing as the same as adopting a child - choosing a child or choosing another adult who comes with a child - the concept of family is much more than genetics.

Unless they were hard up I’d keep the money and tell them to do one tbh. They’ve got no legal right to it and if it bothered them they should have discussed with their son before he move in with you. Not fair to bring it up now imo!

It's up to your DH, but I think that he should not return the money. It was a gift. They dont need it. Transferring it back will throw their IHT planning out of whack. And it would trigger arguments about the current value (what about the mortgage payments and maintenance and improvements?)

If you and your DH feel that your ILs are good kind people I wouldn't rethink that just yet. They clearly view the gift as an advance on his inheritance and imagined that it would pass down, plus any profit, to their grandchildren. It's a normal - albeit not universal- attitude and reflects that your older child may inherit from elsewhere.

I would not be surprised if they leave DH's share of their estate directly to his children.

Anyone who gives a gift has to let go and trust the recipient to do the right thing. Maybe DH can persuade them of that. Good luck

Unbelievable!

If the other siblings aren't giving their gifts back your DH should not have to give his share back.

He definitely doesn't owe double. Very cheeky and mean.

You need the extra money to move. Presumably an expensive area.

If not agreed as a loan tell them no no no. When all other siblings give back their money I still wouldn't consider it.

However, if your husband wants to keep them happy he could perhaps offer to put £160K in trust for your children together as soon as he is able to, if only to try to protect it from being seized towards care home fees in 40/50 years' time. If one of you chooses to put the equivalent in trust for your oldest child, there's no reason why your husband should tell his parents about it.

Good idea!

But a shared ownership scheme would. It depends what strings were attached at the time, if any. Is there any charge on the deeds? Agree with pp maybe they need money or have had financial advice about inheritance planning etc which has raised this. At least the 80k is outside the limit of gifts for iht but it seems they want to limit what you might be entitled to.

As a knee jerk reaction I would give them the 80k back and never talk to them again.

How so, when the siblings got the same?

I wouldn't give them a penny back. However, for the sake of argument, say the house cost £300,000 and is now worth £600,000. That doesn't mean their £80,000 has doubled in value. Your Dh (and you since your marriage) are very likely to have spent money on the house since the purchase on things which will have added additional value eg a new kitchen, bathroom, an extension, landscaping, attic/loft conversion, new windows, woodburners etc. None of that additional value is down to their gift, it is down to the 'improvements' since. That's an important factor if you agree to anything- which I wouldn't.
If you have spent £100,000 in improvements, that needs to be removed from the overall pot before their increase is worked out if you intend to pay them.

All I can say is the ILs are in for a shock when they find there are no pockets on a shroud. Oh wait...

I'd never have anything to do with them ever again, OP. I'm sorry for the nasty surprise you've got from them.

Yep

Do they have form for controlling behaviour? Has your DH actually told them to bugger off and told them they won't have contact with either of your DC? If not I'd be loudly asking him why he isn't kicking up more or a fuss about his parents trying to massively financially disadvantage his family.

Ignore_ just realised I was wrong. I thought that might be what had prompted this 'stewing' by them but you have been married 5 years not 15.

Was your DH previously married?

Give them the 80

Edited as PP explained the misunderstanding

If I were your husband I'd be asking if your siblings had paid their money back twice over also? If not then why? Has he asked his siblings their opinion on it? You're already married, either way you benefit. They have ruined your relationship with them and it's hard to come back from this. If the other siblings haven't paid back and this is all about your eldest then at most id give them the 80k but tell them you're all done with them and will never see their grandchild again. I also can't get over all the comments here about OP 'levelling up' , ffs get a grip noone would be saying this if it was a bog standard 120k mid terraced house

It is only DH who has a stepchild. His siblings will not be asked to repay their gifts as they only have biological grandchildren.

I really see the stepchild thing as the same as adopting a child - choosing a child or choosing another adult who comes with a child - the concept of family is much more than genetics

Totally depends on the dynamics of the family. It's absolutely fine not to feel the same way about step kids as biological kids.

My DH has stepparents on both sides and despite having lived with his stepdad since primary school age, doesn't consider their parents to be grandparents whatsoever. He had his own grandparents already.

I think it's a bit of a red herring to focus on the fact that OP's PILs don't view her oldest child as their GC. That's not necessarily problematic in and of itself. It's the attempt to control and reclaim a gift that is the issue.

Something is wrong with the numbers here. The house has doubled in value and is worth 650k. So was 325k at the time of purchase.
325k less 80k gifted deposit means the mortgaged amount was 245k.
You say the house still has 140k owed on it - but husband has been paying the mortgage for 20 years !. By my calculation there should be less than 40k outstanding..
More than 100k is missing somewhere. I wonder if that's more what's behind the request for the deposit back...

They sound like psychos

I’d get him to tell them you can no longer afford to TTC another child or move house and that you’re staying put with just the one shared child in that case.

Id still TTC though