In-laws want their deposit back

[ArnosLeach]

I married 5 years ago and I have a three and a half year old and a nearly nine year old from a short lived relationship.

Full background as I am anticipating the questions I would want answering.

The nine year old sees their father once a month for a weekend. I assume that my ‘ex’ owns his house. He had a vasectomy before our child was born. We do not communicate on any level other than if arrangements need to change. He pays a set amount every month but every month will buy shoes/clothes etc.

We moved into the house my husband had bought fifteen years before. It has doubled in value. Following a miscarriage last year we are trying to conceive again and we are looking to move house. We mentioned this to the in-laws a fortnight ago. I did not know that they had provided DH with deposit.
They have now asked for twice the deposit back comprising the original sum and the proportion of what that deposit has added to the value.

They feel that my elder child will benefit from their largesse. We are both completely gutted by this. A bolt out of the blue.

What horrible people. Words fail me.

I would be tempted to point out that if your DH were to return the money and then they pass away and leave it in a will, they will be giving a substantial portion to the tax man which will exceed any perceived benefit that your son might have!

Will his other sibling also have to hand their deposit back? That would only be fair.

Are the in-laws planning on leaving the money direct to all the grandchildren or some to DH and sibling too? If leaving to your DH, then it will be up to him how he decides to split the money.

I'm presuming that their reason for excluding your 9 year old son is based upon the assumption that he has two other sets of grandparents and a father who will leave money to him and it would be unfair if he were to end up with more. The trouble is, it's extremely hard to predict the future and inheritance therefore impossible to be fair.

They’re horrible. At first I was thinking you should just give them the £80k back, but the more I think about it, the more I think that would be being craven, implying they’re somehow right, and giving in to them. If it was definitely a gift, ignore them and have very little to do with them.

Yes. I’ve posted before about my mum’s friend who treated her son’s stepdaughter exactly the same as the other DGC - had never made any difference between them.

I find this kind of attitude appalling. Presumably they would have treated an adoptive child the same. Disgraceful.

OP, I would make it clear to your DH that you want nothing to do with them again and they will not play any role in any of your DCs’ upbringing. I would absolutely keep their birth GC away from them if they treat the half sibling like this.

They have already ruined the relationship so I would be telling the ILs no, they will not be getting their gift back and that they are not entitled to any profit.

As a solution, why not say you will rewrite your wills and leave a legacy of £80k on the second death to son no 2. Could even index link it to the day he was born? That way you can trundle on financially and son no 2 gets the money his grandparents wanted on 2nd death. Question though, had you not had child with current dh, and dh dies, would they expect you to sell up and give them £80/160k back? What a horrid situation given your dh obviously helps finance no 1 son via food, shelter, housing etc. Good luck x

This.
They probably think that you're likely to divorce, and you would get 50% of the equity in the house (despite getting with your DH 15 years after he bought it).

They probably don't want to take that money from their son your DH, I'd say that in their heads they intend to "keep it for him" till after such a divorce happens and the finances are sorted, so you don't have any claim on it. And then they'd give it back to their son after.

There is no backstory. My child is a lovely, lovely child and there is no reason at all for them think we are on the brink of divorce.

How my husband bought a house a decade and half before he met me never came into my head and we never discussed it. Not for one minute do I believe my husband is lying to me about the basis of this loan now.

My children are treated differently and I put this down to them being different sexes and six years apart. The eldest is at the same small single entry school as Brother-in-law’s youngest but in different years. MiL has very close relationships with the siblings’ children. My eldest calls her a corruption of her first name that they couldn’t pronounce when they were little.

Not trying to be goady but are you or your first born from a different culture/ethnicity.

It's so unbelievably unfair that their actions come across as bigoted and not just sibling preference.

God I'm sorry OP.

I have been in that dynamic minus the money side of it. It's just toxic.

It never got any better. My eldest child just simply never existed to them.

Sometimes I feel unlucky that my husband and I have had zero financial help, but when I read this I can't help to feel a bit lucky to have done everything ourselves. What arseholes are they asking for double what they gifted their son. It's not a small amount either. Your poor husband must feel stuck between a rock and hard place! Would they fuck off if you sign a postnup for the 160k?

You call it a loan. Was it a loan or a gift?

For all they know, after they die all their dc might get divorced or father other dc or a multitude of complicated scenarios.

They acknowledge the money was a gift and they acknowledge that there is no legal basis for the request

In that case it's hard to see a motivation for their request beyond spite - and spite rankles

Someone else said this but the in-laws are a mix of Irish, Italian and English. My eldest is English.

Actually now that I think about it I would just say as it was a gift and they have no legal right to it, the money will not be gifted back to them, and then I would just convince my husband to move as far away as possible from them.

If you move, will you and your DH own the new house as joint tenants?

Tell them to jog on. Absolutely do not give them a penny.

If it was a loan there will be a paper trail saying so, as borrowing money as part of a payment towards a house (even from a family member) is quite a complex process that needs to be managed via a solicitor in order for a lender to be happy to lend to people whose deposit comprises a loan. This a good summary:

https://www.charcol.co.uk/guides/mortgage-deposit-guide/can-i-borrow-money-for-a-deposit-on-a-house/#c46252

If there isn't this paper trail, then it is legally a gift.

"They acknowledge the money was a gift and they acknowledge that there is no legal basis for the request."

So they know they're being unreasonable, and you don't have to repay them the deposit. So your husband has to repeat that back to them, " the deposit was a gift, legally you cannot ask for it back." Then stop talking about it.

Wow OP I hope you have a mentally strong H as this is bloody awful and shocking. Personally I would cut my in-laws off if I was you but you'll have to have that conversation with your H. I would be fucking done with them.

Sweet Jesus this is shocking. I am as some posters have "nicely" put it done well in my life thanks to my inlaws. my inlaws were and still are very generous. my husband was gifted money to buy land to build his house before I met him which we have since sold and built another one. at no stage did they ever ask for it back and are actually happy for us to be improving our lives. we did have to when father in law died list all gifts we got off him for inheritance tax reasons but that's all. if I was in your partners position I would 1st clarify was it a loan or a gift ? where is the paperwork? is the other sibling who also got it have to pay theirs back too? if they demand it back you only pay 80k back not 160k (greedy fuckers ) would make sure that payment deal is in writing get it signed legally and then take a loan out and pay them 5e a week until its paid back. the bitch in me would not give them the 80k back in one go. I would also drop contact with them alltogetrr the bustards.
to all those posters saying op has done well ( and to the people I know say it about me) you all sound jelouse. you don't know what goes behind close doors or day ti day is in people's lives. we shoudl be happy for the op she has found someone who treats her right and taken on looking after a child that is not his. that's commitment. she is allowed to enjoy the fruits of their Labour.

I'm just gobsmacked that they would be so upfront that it's all because of your eldest. I feel sick for you. It would really hurt me.

They contributed about 25% of the house's value at the time.

If you want to keep the money and respect their desire to ringfence it from non blood relatives, you could write a contract which says that in the event of divorce/his death the equivalent proportion of the new house will be held in trust for your dh's dc only. So if you now buy a house which is worth 2x what this house is worth, 12.5% will be ringfenced for their gc.

Their worry is probably that if he dies or you divorce, you will walk away with half of the value of the house and then leave it to your ds, which in fairness would be unfair if your ds were to inherit from his father as well. If they had assurances that that would not be the case, they might not want the money back.

OP have they said openly that they expect the money back because of your DD? Or is this a suspicion?

It’s bizarre to ask for a gift to be returned and even more weird to demand they get double back as interest. But to do so blatantly in an attempt to exclude your DD is unforgivable.

Whether your DH gives them the £80k back or not, it’s unlikely the relationship with them will ever recover. So he should keep the money and ask for an apology.