“You can’t possibly have a baby in that flat”

[Mellowpink]

DH and I are in our late 30s and finally decided to start trying for a baby before it’s too late. Mentioned this to my sister, expecting excitement, but she had a totally different reaction. We live in Zone 3 SW London in a 2 bed 3rd floor flat. It's an old building, so no lift, just steep stairs. And our second "bedroom" is more like a box room, currently my home office.

My sister insists it's too dangerous and cramped to raise a child here. I said I’m sure we could make it work, but she says I just don't get it as I'm not a parent yet. We've thought about moving, but staying close to central London for work is a must as we are hybrid workers. We looked at houses in Surrey but prices seem to be crazy, and with interest rates, we'd be paying a more just to inconvenience ourselves by being further out.

Am I crazy to think we can handle raising a baby here?

Yes i agree. As i said earlier one of mine is doing this right now and even though on paper they have 'enough space' for a child (and no stairs or lifts to contend with) the mental stress of trying to raise the baby in a room which is half living room half office is hitting them a bit at the mo. They are weighing up if they can afford the cost of one of them traveling back to work at the office!

You can't 'just' keep a baby quiet.

@CadyEastman we have a very large kitchen so would probably move my home office into there once baby needed the 2nd bedroom.

It's completely fine. The stairs and pushchair situation might be PITA, but the baby won't care. I'd get a compact stroller with a carry strap rather than a 2 piece pram, or if you've got a car, store it in there. A 2 bed flat is plenty of space for one child.

How ridiculous! Millions of children live in flats. Millions of children share the box room with siblings.

I had 2 kids in a box room in a first floor flat. I kept the buggy in the boot of my car so I didn't have to lug it up the stairs, but that would obviously depend on your car/parking situation as to whether that would be an option for you.

Also, whatever decision you make regarding moving, you don't have to commit to for the rest of your life. You can't put life on hold forever and you can always look at moving in a few years time if it is getting cramped.

I think you can make it work. Yes it will be cramped and it’s a lot of stairs but it’s manageable.

I’d recommend a buggy like a Yoyo as will collapse to be very small and it’s light. It’s not good for off road use but you are in London and getting it up and down the stairs will probably be a greater need than using it in woodland. The rest of the time you can use a sling.

I don't get this stress everyone is talking about! I got nappies delivered from boots. Shopping one of does while the other has our child or online shop. Bits and bobs like bread and milk just pick up as normal and put in my bag.

Baby in sling and if I wanted to fold the pram I would just carry it and the baby. I'm not freakishly strong but the bugaboo bee is really light. i've never really found it that difficult, we live next to tons of green spaces, all the shops are on the doorstep. It's very easy day to day.

Honestly OP I know at least 10 other couples in London who do this. It's very normal.

Your sister is an idiot. Does she think that no one in, say, Paris, has children?

If you have a common court yard/garden/bike shed you can probably leave your pram there. If not - use a sling and a very light pram.

They may not have a car. We didn't when we lived in London.

As long as you have somewhere safe to put the baby while you're taking the buggy etc up and down the stairs when you're on your own it's doable. Not ideal but plenty of people do it.
I'd probably look at moving to a ground floor flat to make it easier for you and better for your neighbors once the child gets to running around stage and making noise.

Some of these replies are OTT, the ones saying it’s completely unsuitable and even dangerous. Honestly. Many people live in more more crowded conditions and do okay.

HOWEVER. We had two kids in a two bedroom flat for a very long time before we moved when our third was born. It was really not ideal but we managed for the most part. But the two things that would be a pain with your situation- the stairs (we didn’t have that issue) and your partner WFH. We were in our 2 bed flat in lockdown and it felt VERY small and claustrophobic with 4 of us there 24/7 and my husband trying to WFH. My kids were older so weren’t even like a baby/toddler crying or causing mayhem.

The stairs will be a complete pain I won’t lie, especially if you have a c section. It’s also really not safe to carry a baby unharnessed in a bassinet type thing (the ones you detach from the pram). If you have a car yes in theory you could keep the buggy in it, but many of my friends (we are also SW London) have had theirs stolen doing that. Shopping etc get online. Although some delivery drivers have an issue with bringing shopping up 3 flights with no lift, so eg if you’re getting a big food shop and nappies/formula etc you may find it impossible to leave baby and come and get shopping etc.

It’s not completely unworkable and people have, and do, much more difficult housing situations. I wouldn’t delay TTC though- you can always reasses later on.

It's fine with one DC, especially if you're used to trekking up and down those stairs already. It's even nice when they're mobile, all being on one level and close to one another in the flat. I'm sure you've got parks and lots of facilities close by too.

I agree with PP that a sling and lightweight foldable stroller is the way forward.

If it isn't OK, then you can look at moving.

The key is whether there is or can be somewhere to store a pram on the ground floor. If so go for it.

If not you probably need to move either to somewhere with a lift or on the ground floor or somewhere with storage.

It would be one thing to have to carry a pram up one flight of stars, tough but ok with some planning but third floor would be awful.

The fact it is a flat or only two bedroom is irrelevant.

Babies grow, and they have a lot of stuff.

Many people may raise families in tiny homes but I bet they're bloody miserable about it.

Does your sister have children?

Oh, btw, some prams have transport bags with backpack straps (babyzen yoyo for example) so would be way to carry up.

I'm shocked by some of these extreme responses. OP it will be absolutely fine, not even a consideration. We did similar with two babies and toddlers. The stairs were a pain at times but they could soon walk. Babyhood is over before you know it.

Babies only have a lot of stuff if you buy a lot of stuff. They only need very little at any one time.

Given the space you have, it can be do-able. Stairs situation is tricky especially if they are steep.
Another thing there is no guarantee you will only have a baby , you might have twins. It's still a possibility. Will the space be okay in that situation?

And also expenses generally increase with childcare etc after child turns 1 and maternity leave finishes, and then if you want to move house with garden access etc it would be hard to move .Plenty of examples here on mumsnet with such scenarios

People have always brought kids up in flats. The leases in our block of flats, built in the 1930s, actually states where prams should be stored. So they were clearly expecting young families to live there.

We do have lifts though!

I didn't really use a buggy with dd2.
I used a sling for her until she was about 6-7 months, then I used a back pack. I suspect in London that would be easier anyway.

I remember when she was 3yo and I was 8 months pregnant with dc#3 and we were walking out of the house past the unused buggy and she suddenly announced "that baby is not using my buggy". And it gave me quite a jolt that she thought of it as being her buggy. She had hardly been in it, and even then under protest.
She'd walked mostly from about a year, and if going further went in the backpack.

Gosh, I think I missed the bit in the OP where she said she lives in a brothel and opium den.

Absolutely. They need stuff to wear, somewhere to sleep, and nourishment. DS slept in a sidelong cot alongside our bed, had a chest of drawers for his clothes, the top of which was his changing mat and a shelf for toys, and needed bottles, formula and microwave steriliser (which wouldn't have been needed had I produced any milk...) Later on, he had a highchair that screwed onto the edge of the table.

Babies only have a lot of stuff if you buy a lot of stuff. They only need very little at any one time.

They need only a few things I suppose, but they're all bulky things. Cot, car seat storage, pram/buggy, nappies, high chair etc.

Doesn’t sound like too much of a box room if you can fit a double bed and wardrobe in it!

The main problem for me would be the stairs. Trying to manage them, coming in soaking wet from the rain, baby losing the plot, bags of shopping and pram to get back upstairs. It’s obviously doable and plenty of people do it but there’ll be situations where the whole thing will probably make you wanna cry!

Is there anywhere outside? Somewhere you couldn't put one of those plastic storage benches with a lock on to store the pram? That's the only problem I am seeing as it would be a ball ache getting pram and baby up and down the stairs