AIBU to defend my daughter?

[stressedmummmm]

My daughter is 11 (12 in June) and she has been a handful to handle both at home and in school. She is starting to get into more and more trouble at school and I'm not sure what to do.

Recently she has gotten into trouble for googling her history teacher during class which the teacher. She's gotten an afterschool detention.

Previously she had gotten into trouble for being rude and combative to her very kind teacher. The teacher has said that negative consequences do not have an effect on her, and the sanction system fails her.

Another teacher has said she's so distributive in music class that the teacher has requested she be moved to another class as she didn't want to deal with her anymore.

At home, she will scream at me if she does not get what she wants. She is very rude to us all. She hits her brothers if they do not listen to what she tells them to do, for example, to turn their iPads down. She will scream if her food is not how she wants it. She will scream if I dont take her somewhere specific now.

She is very jealous of me hanging out with my friends or even speaking to them on the phone. If I go out with my friends she will call her father in tears saying I have abandoned them (we live close to my inlaws, and when I go out my inlaws kindly have the kids). She will also text my friends on my Instagram and tell them to not contact me/I don't want to speak to them.

Her father and I had a rough patch a few months ago and she was witness to a lot of the fighting. However, these behaviour issues are not new at all. Amid our fighting, she got into trouble at school. In the first term of the year, she had gotten (within two months) 25 negatives.

I lost my mum at 14. My stepmom was not kind, and she didn't like me. I ended up spending most weekends with my grandmother on my mum's side. As I got older I started spending more time away from my dad's house until I got married at 23, fresh out of uni. I think I tried to give my children as much love as possible, and I always try to show them I am on their side. Kind of us against the world. When my daughter gets into trouble I am the first to defend her, but it gets out of hand and the school has mentioned suspension and expulsion more than once. My children live a blessed life, they get everything they want. DD goes horse riding three times a week, and I am thinking of buying her a horse.

I am worried that I have raised a spoiled brat but that she also might be neurodiverse. Her brother has been diagnosed with ADHD, but he behaves much better and his issues were very apparent. Shes smart enough to be masking, but her behaviour is out of hand.

My friend tells me I need to become more harsh with discipline, and I should be punishing her more severely. Especially with the horseriding privileges. How should I do this? Please be kind, I am trying my best here.

I agree with this.

You are thinking of buying her a horse while she is behaving like this?….. do you not see anything wrong with that…. she is a brat that needs disciplining not gifts

You have a spoiled brat.

Why on earth would you defend your daughter when she does something wrong? It doesn't have to be the end of the world but you need to address her behaviour with her and discipline her accordingly.

Why does she have such free access to the internet? Please please to an online safety course and think about limiting her access, especially to social media.

Kids at this age always go through behavioural changes but that's why it's so much more important that you step up and be the adult in the conversation. You are not her friend you are her parent.

Please don’t buy your daughter a pony - they are living creatures that need a lot of love but also hard work (mucking out, daily exercise, grooming etc…). Speaking from experience it is a huge responsibility!!

Also please think of the impact of your daughter’s behaviour on your other kids. I still have serious issues due to how I was treated by my sibling as a child.

My older bro was spoilt by my mum and was jealous, angry and sometimes hit if I got anything. He really put me down and was very angry towards me. He didn’t have to do chores growing up because “it upset him”. The special treatment he received obviously made us believe my mum loved us less (and still do).

He scored highest in the school year on entrance exam but was constantly in trouble and never worked - my mum never punished him and always made excuses and would say we should all try not to upset him. He failed and didn’t get to go to uni - spent years unemployed living off my mum having tantrums like a kid, screaming when he didn’t get his own way. It’s only in his 30’s with counselling (cognitive behavioural therapy) that he went back to Uni and now in his 40’s has a great job and is actually okay to be around. But he wasted 2 decades being unemployable and having poor relationships with family because he felt he was entitled to stuff.

Yikes I just read your responses - it might be worth taking a parenting class? You need to nip this in the bud now as it could get worse when she is a teenager.

Set reasonable boundaries, discuss them with her, treat her as a person, absolutely electronics should go but if it's used as a punishment it needs to be in a way that helps her self-reflection not that makes her focus on you doing something bad and then the electronics. Start looking at pocket money, how she can earn her privileges. Gentle parenting is great but make sure it's not too gentle. And finally stop defending and excusing her behaviour.

I've said this before but the internet and social media is so dangerous right now. No kid under 16 should have unsupervised access.

Parenting ND girls is really hard because the usual things often don't work how you are told they will. The things which do 'work' look like terrible parenting (and you have no idea if they actually are working or what working would look like), everyone denies there is anything different about your child, and you are absolutely exhausted most of the time. Any additional challenges tend to exacerbate things and make it even harder.

I would explore a diagnosis. It will give you a lot of answers if she is ND. If she isn't ND you will need a different approach.

I wouldn't take away riding lessons because it will help with regulation.

I've managed to implement behaviour changes with one child by using rewards for desired changes plus trying to reduce unintended rewards (ie taking attention away from undesirable behaviours). With my other child, rewards and consequences are less successful because that is not what the child is motivated by. It is really really hard.

Please enrol yourself in parenting classes as soon as possible, many of your questions will be answered there.

But rigid routines and strict consequences don't work for all kids. My dd rails against any kind of routine and rebels against any form of control, but with a different approach, she behaves impeccably. As you say, it is about figuring out what works for your child. A one size fits all approach isn't appropriate.

I completely agree with this. That said it sounds like the OP's child has had no routines and consequences. Generally structures work better for kids with additional needs- that doesn't mean ridgidity.

Fundamentally OP needs to stop treating it as OK that her daughter is abusive. She, her other kids, the teachers and the kids at school have a right to be treated with respect.

She may well be neurodiverse but that doesn't mean she can't have consequences for her actions........maybe the reason her brother is much better behaved is because subconsciously you've been a lot more on the ball with him and dealt with any behaviour that needs dealing with. As a result he's been a lot more able to moderate himself, whereas your dd can just do what she likes.

I can tell you 100% it’s absolutely to do with how she parents her, have we read an entirely different thread? It is absolutely not out of the norm behaviour for a child who has never had any boundaries or healthy discipline. This is why so many children who have genuine ND are now having to wait for years to be assessed because of crap parents who can’t be bothered to properly parent their kids wailing about how they must be ND instead of putting the work in like the rest of us. Sick to death of seeing posts like this all the time! Also, FYI many ADHD children don’t have dreadful behaviour problems but struggle in all sorts of different ways that they need help with.

All that awful behaviour and your thinking of buying a fucking horse
not a vhance

Firstly, I wouldn't cancel the horse riding lessons. If anything should go it's the electronics. But I wouldn't actually dole out a punishment now, out of the blue anyway.
You are in serious danger of causing all out war in your home. By the sound of your daughter, you'll be in a negative cycle of taking things away until there's nothing left to go but your relationship.
The first thing I'd do, is stop rewarding bad behaviour with any new purchases. If you want to go down the taking things away route, I'd go with "We were going to go to 'fun place' this weekend, but we aren't now because of your behaviour"
I think your relationship needs improving.
Do you think you might have fallen into the trap of spending more money than quality time with her? Just with her begrudging you time with your friends, it sounds like she's crying out for attention.
Have a look at Gabor Mate's Hold onto your kids. It's a book, but there are lots of videos online, explaining the concept.
I've got tweens and teens (one has autism/ADHD) It's a perilous time, but can still be a happy one if you have a firm plan/ethos in place for how to deal with emotions.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves yes, fair enough there are different processes for different type sof children. But OP's children has had no structure, no consequences and no routine and what's also clear is that his child's behaviour is largely out of control. So no structure or consequences are clearly not working.

also, I think that consequences are not the same as punishments necessarily.
Ditto, structure does not mean a strict routine.

As a rule, for example, we don't take DS' phone from him. That is 100% a punishment and it has zero effect. It just backfires on us and creates a great deal of tension. Basically, he sees it as a punishment, not a consequence and that ends badly for everyone. We try to make consequences that are directly related to whatever the problem is. He's late coming home - then he can't be trusted to go out next time. He has detention? Then he misses out on an activity he was looking forward to and will get no sympathy from us. He is rude? Then we won't be continuing to engage with him or talk to him. If appropriate, that also means that the favour I was about to do for him does not happen - eg no lift, no making him his post-school snack (he can make it himself) etc.

On the plus side, the consequences of good behaviour are also clear and consistent. HIs reliability and maturity when out and about with his friends means he's allowed out a lot and can negotiate additional time as needed. Polite and friendly behaviour means I'll help him with tasks he finds difficult, particularly when he's feeling sensory overloaded etc. Fewer codes and detentions means I'm happy for him to go to his activities, and of course will drive him there as needed. etc etc etc etc.

Def punish her now. She should have had punishment for each of the 25 things she did in school. She should have been punished each time she screams, each time she hit her siblings. This is not acceptable behaviour. In my house that would be no going out, no screens, no phones and jobs to do. You are here to parent her and that means teaching her how to be a decent human. If you don’t teach her these things you will not have done her any favours. Would a life partner put up with your daughter behaving like that. We could give our children everything they want but we chose not to as you say if you do that you end up with a spoilt brat🥲

Rewards and punishments won't work.
I wouldn't cancel lessons but would not buy the horse at this point.
Go ahead with ND assessment, but don't wait for results. Start researching and adapt your parenting accordingly.

Get school on board.

I think volunteering at a stables would be more appropriate than buying a horse. She sounds like a troubled young woman, possibly in need of some counselling to talk through the impact of the fighting she has witnessed.

But you need to work with the school to reinforce boundaries. A consequence at school should be mirrored by a consequence at home, in my opinion. Detention? No screen time. Suspension? Grounded and no screen time.

She will really kick back when you first enforce the boundaries. You need to be consistent and persevere. It will be much, much harder than if you had fair and clear boundaries in place from when she was a young child. But ultimately it will make her feel safer and happier.

Agree could be worth checking for possible neurodiversity.

but also definitely sounds like an issues of lack consequences for her behaviour. My daughter is half the age of yours but I have recently had a big wake up call myself that by trying to do gentle parenting I have accidentally at times been way too permissive and inconsistent with boundaries and consequences. Which has at times led to very challenging behaviour.

i have started to consequences to her actions, she does it again she looses screen time etc. it is already working and things are much easier. We have tired to be collaborative at times about certain things.

I would recommend the book, the explosive child. I listen on audiobook it’s helped me so much

If this was a boy hitting his sisters the replies would be on the side of the sisters.

She sounds really spoilt. I can't believe she messages your friends telling them not to contact you. Thats shocking.

I would carry on with the horse riding but definitely not be buying her a horse until her behaviour improves.

I'm going against the grain here, but I tend to think that when children of your daughter's age behave badly, it's a cry for help. There's something wrong - either your daughter is neurodiverse or she's unhappy in some way.

I think that allowing her to go horseriding is a good thing - physical activity and exercise and spending time with animals can all help give a focus to her life. I'm less sure about buying her a horse - it could be the making of her, or she could neglect it and it would be a disaster. Also I see the argument that it could be seen as a reward for bad behaviour.

being neurodiverse is not a free pass for appalling behaviour. It may go some way to explaining why some aspects of life are harder for her but it does not give her a free pass to hit people and disrupt everyone else's life. I have a son who is autistic, he still has to function in society. still has to go to work, still has to abide by societies rules. Yes one can work out strategies to help, but its not a free pass to be a brat and get away with whatever you want to

There are some really good parenting courses out there. I'd have a look around for one that suits your approach and can support you to support your daughter. If you get some in person support it might be easier. Best of luck.

I think this is excellent advice.

This - neurodiverse or not an 11 year old should not have unrestricted, unmonitored access to the internet or social media.

I don't know whether she is neurodiverse or not. Neither does anyone else here. If that is a possibility then you need to follow up.

What I do know is that you are thinking of rewarding her with a horse for her appalling behaviour.

Nobody gets everything that they want - not only is that not a real life, but it's an appalling approach. You are compensating them for what you perceive you didn't get. And yes, if you are defending this kind of behaviour, then you are wrong to be doing so.

Neurodiverse or not, she's in for a bloody miserable life of she continues in this vein- because the rest of the world won't tolerate it, and will deal with her harshly indeed. So it needs to stop, and you are the one best placed to stop supporting and encouraging it.

@stressedmummmm she is absolutely likely to be ND, very very familiar.

I have a thread on chat about how to parent my ND little boy (5) in order for him to grow up to be a good person, I’ve found it very helpful, there might be some good info for you too, if you want to search my username you’ll probably find it.