To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

That not the same thing at all.

At what point is there any safe topics of conversation then? You could take any topic and find something sinister if you try hard enough.

Do we all just work in silence at work then? Only asking John if he can send the spreadsheet and Jane if she could forward that email. Sounds healthy…

For the of Christ 🙄

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia hang on - are you saying people can't ask other people if they had a nice Christmas in case they didn't?

I don't ask people at work if they have children. I have a new staff member - I have specifically not asked my new team
Member. It has come out in general conversation self volunteered that she doesn't have any.

I was married before, unhappily and on the verge of leaving him and I never forget this man asking me why I don't have children?

Then once I did have children, we really struggled to have our second - again learnt that you don't ask people about having children.

For what it's worth I had a shit Christmas but when people at work asked me I said, yeah fine thanks. I don't complain to hr about them asking me inappropriate questionnaire. That's insane.

I'm saying that it's ill-advised, given that Christmas is known for escalation of DV.

I can't believe that, on a parenting website with a Relationships forum full of women helping each other identify abuse and leave abusers, I have to spell this out.

I disagree. Plenty of women just haven't go to that stage in their lives yet.

And many women with children DO plan to have them, even if many of use are or were accidents!

Someone said they've never asked the question themselves - I don't think it's something I ask in the general run of things, but if someone is talking about my child I might ask if they have any. And no, people don't always tell you they have kids - I don't usually unless asked, or if it's a reason for something I did at the weekend like taking my son back to university.

I've had "fine, thanks" when I actually really wasn't used against me at disciplinary, so I now refuse to lie about my mental state at work.

You can easily say that 'Christmas wasn't great, sorry I'd rather not go into it', or just say 'Yeah, some family issues, glad it's over'. No need to lie or go into details.

I prefer if people don't ask me (same goes for weekends). Other people tend to have more exciting lives than I do and I don't really need it rubbing in!

I would be sending an email back to Hr along the lines of:

I apologise if I have upset anyone as this was not my intention at all. I was participating in general conversation which started when xxx asked me about my DD. I will ensure in the future I don't engage in any personal talk outside of the work environment

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia so because we're all on a parenting website we should agree it's inappropriate to ask anyone we work with if they had a nice Christmas?

That might work for neurotypical people who don't have an immediate fight/flight/freeze/fawn/flop response to personal questions that have unpleasant answers. It doesn't work for me. I freeze, then run, clam up, or give both barrels of unvarnished honesty.

Senior HR here.

The OP was at HR to discuss a flexible working request in relation to childcare. I wonder where the manager was? Flexible working meetings are formal. The manager has HR, the employee has a colleague or TU rep.

As the request was submitted ro support childcare it was reasonable for HR to discuss the child. At a stretch I can see the HR person feeling the query about their family circs was potentially passive aggressive in the event that the decision did not go the Employee's way. They might have referred that to a senior colleague.

Either way the senior HR person was bang out of order and very unprofessional. People chat all sorts of things to HR. Mostly it's water off a ducks back. It sounds like a dysfunctional HR dept to me and the flex working request was not being professionally dealt with. HR advise the manager, they should not make the decision

The meeting was about her flexible needs so of course it was relevant the HR person asked. If she hadn't then the employee would have felt aggrieved that "HR didn't ask one question about my childcare/children.

I would expect a higher awareness than I'm seeing of why Christmas is a traumatic hellscape for a lot of women.

I think the HR person has been a bit silly. Sounds like you were having an informal chat and I don't think your question was inappropriate under the circumstances.

I guess we shouldn't wish someone a Merry Christmas either, in case they are dreading it?

I have asked people if they had kids before. I have also been asked - I don't have any. Someone should have reported me and vice versa. Or maybe we just realised it was just chitchat, there was no malice. Easier these days not to talk to anyone.

I am amazed that anyone could get anything done with this level of overanalysing. Christ.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia actually I find it quite offensive that you're assuming I don't know how hard it can be at Christmas (or any other time) to be the victim of coercive control or domestic abuse. But I still don't think it's offensive to ask other people if they had a nice Christmas because, well, it's a totally innocuous thing for people to ask. I'm not complaining to hr about it.

I'd say that wishing a merry xmas is ok, even desirable, because you are expressing a desire for future happiness.

Perhaps this year, xmas will be good because "D"H will walk in front of a lorry whilst drunk or his victim may decide to leave him.

What on earth does she think she will gain from complaining to HR about stuff like this? Her colleagues must avoid her like the plague in case they inadvertently upset her.

I'm autistic but I have memorised many phrases. I'm can't hide reactions or emotions but that helps, it's clear if someone should not question further.