To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

This. I wouldn’t be engaging with her ever again, tbh. Formal work chat only. Ignore her the rest of the time.

I'm really sorry.. I voted YABU because I misread the post and thought YOU were the HR person doing the flexitime request, and that it might have been viewed as discriminatory to base your decision on it.

Having removed my head from my backside and read it properly, I don't see that you did anything wrong whatsoever. YANBU. Sorry again for the incorrect vote.

Aprilx · Today 11:43

I still do not expect to go into a formal work place meeting and have the other person, who I may not have even met me before, ask direct questions about my fertility and / or life choices. I am not sure what you are not getting about this.

But the OP was not asking about fertility or life choices. She asked a simple question, do you have a child? Answer, no!

I know the person said it was "too late for her".... but people always assume childless people cnt have kids, yet it could be for different reasons.

There's a lady who lost all her 4 kids over a couple of years, and many more in similar situations.
Most wouldn't want to talk about it at work or be reminded of it.

It's a sensitive subject all round and better to err on the side of caution.

Empathy goes a long way.

I work in HR, clearly the HR manager hasn’t got more important things to worry about! I get it’s a sensitive subject but there was absolutely no intention to cause offence here.

Exactly. It doesn’t sound like OP asked her why she didn’t have kids, so she just volunteered that “it was too late” for her? What a weirdo.

Bat it back with she asked first about your child which is an even more inappropriate question then.

It may be a simple question to you, but to a person who had hopes of having a child and never did,for whatever reason, it can be a very painful one. Is that so difficult for you to understand?

By The same token, plenty of people have suffered very painful events related to their kids. And may not want people asking about their kids.

This is the point. Any question could be painful for somebody.

I am not sure it’s forward thinking at all, to assume that because a woman doesn’t have kids that it must be a painful situation for them. I have a few friends who don’t have kids and hate the assumption that it’s a sore point for them. It’s a choice they made.

It’s really not good for women, at all, for society to assume a woman who doesn’t have kids, must have wanted them but couldn’t.

If we are going to avoid any personal questions in case it relates to a painful experience for that person, there’s no conversations at all.

Don’t mention Mother’s Day, because my mother is dead.
Don’t mention Father’s Day as Bobs dad is dead

If you want to apply the rule to this specific subject and apply to only women, who haven’t mentioned children, you end up making it more awkward for the women.

This is su h a nonsense. Imagine if the question "are you married,?" was banned. I have children but when they were small, I was sensitive about being a single mum. People raced to corroborate what they suspected; that I was indeed a single parent. None of them feel they crossed any boundary im sure. Even if they used the information they got from their non-work related question to judge me/categorise me.
But I get it. Everybody is sensitive about something at some point in their life. That's not a reason to shut down all conversation.

I am not sure it’s forward thinking at all, to assume that because a woman doesn’t have kids that it must be a painful situation for them. I have a few friends who don’t have kids and hate the assumption that it’s a sore point for them. It’s a choice they made.

I don’t assume anything about anyone’s reproductive status if I have only just met them. That’s why I don’t ask. I don’t think it’s really any of my business. Neither is it my business if they are single, married, dating or whatever.

By asking if someone has kids you aren’t asking about their reproductive status. the question is do you have kids. You have decided that’s the question. But it’s not.

Thats like saying if someone says ‘are you doing anything for mothers day’ they are actually asking ‘is your mum alive’

The Mother’s Day after my mum died was incredibly painful. More so than the Mother’s Day after my miscarriages. People asking if I had plans for Mother’s Day did illicit and emotional response because the truth was ‘no, my mum dropped dead out of the blue a few weeks ago I just want to pretend it’s not happening’.

However, to suggest people should never bring up Mother’s Day to people, just in case they are grieving or had miscarriage or have a bad relationship with their mother etc would be ridiculous. It’s really easy to say ‘no’ to these questions and leave it there.

If someone has kids do you think the question ‘how are the kids?’ Shouldn’t be asked. What if you ask someone and their kids are really sick. Would it be reasonable to interpret the question as ‘do you produce healthy children?’. That would be a massive and offensive interpretation. The fault wouldn’t be with the person asking.

As for not asking whether people are single or dating or married. If that person was participating in a conversation and asking other people questions about their relationship, they should expect to be asked questions about their own.

And again, they are classed as questions people don’t like to ask because of the social view that unmarried women are less than. The view is that if a woman isn’t married, she wants to be married but isn’t and it’s embarrassing.

In our induction, its suggested that we are completely non specific re our domestic set up as use of the word 'husband' is heternormative and oppresses/excludes those who may be unwillingly single or in other types of relationships.

FFS.

I'd ask to see the HR policies. We had some new policies put in place at work about relationships at work, not excluding colleagues from social events & being careful about the words you use. Nothing to do with asking about someone's family set up. It was more about "just because you might find something funny, doesn't mean other people do".

It was quite tactless of you.

Maybe she desperately wanted them, or who knows she could have had one and it died.

Never assume, it can be a very sensitive issue.

Personally I think Mother's Day is a load of commercialised nonsense and my mother and my mother in law were of the same opinion.

But do people really ask "are you doing anything for Mother's Day?" It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to be asked beyond thinking what an odd question.

My eyes would have rolled right out of my head 🤦🏼‍♀️

Thats my point. You showed it well. Thank you.

What might be a perfectly normal question in the context of a conversation could be fine for some people and not others.

Being upset by something doesn’t mean something did something wrong. Different things are hard for different people.

and yes, some people ask that. My mum was religious and it was quite a big thing for her and her family. Not buying lots of things. Some flowers and a shared meal. So for people who do celebrate, they may ask.

Just like ‘are you doing anything at Easter?’

But do people really ask "are you doing anything for Mother's Day?" It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to be asked beyond thinking what an odd question.

Wow, can't believe you wrote that. The PP explained how, feeling devastated by her mum's recent death, she found others talking about Mother's Day painful to handle. And you read that and your response is that being asked if you were doing anything for Mother's Day 'wouldn't bother me in the slightest'. If your mum was so awful that her death wouldn't affect you, I feel sorry for you.

@Noideawwhatsoccuring I'm sure I'm not the only person who will join you in saying that the first few years of Mother's Day were painful reminders that I was a motherless child, and that hearing others talk about their mums hurt. And no, I wouldn't dream of asking someone to stop talking about their mum just because my situation had changed. It's not all about me.

Can you honestly not see the irony there, @IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle ? 🤦🏼‍♀️

I’m childless, not by choice, and when asked if I have children I tend to say “No, but I have lots of lovely nieces and nephews”. That saves the other person feeling embarrassed, or leaving an uncomfortable gap.

Complaining about OP’s relevant question (another mother in HR might have given her useful tips), asked in a natural context, seems oversensitive and rather hostile.

I would treat her with caution in future.

I would think anyone asking "have you anything planned for Mother's Day" was a very odd person. What a strange question- does anyone ask it?

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest but, clearly it would upset others, although they wouldn't say anything . It's a bizarre question. For me it'd be an internal "what an odd thing to ask" but if anyone does ask such a bizarre question in real life maybe they should ask themselves why.

Oh and I don't need a day promoted by Hallmark to remind of people,including my mother whom I've loved who are no longer here.

Oh FGS asking how someone is is basically a greeting , and not something most people would consider a personal question in the context of what the OP agreed was small talk before a meeting. Do you take everyone who says "Hi how are you doing?" as them actually wanting an update on your life and personal issues? OP hasn't given anything to confirm HR was digging about her child in a way that suggests she asked a personal question, it sounds like she was showing basic politeness. This wasn't a conversation at work it was a chitchat before an official meeting and quite obviously not the timing to ask such a question. I worry about some of you in day to day life if you really can't decipher the difference between niceties with acquaintances who don't actually want the ins and outs of your life and an actual probing question.

Useful tips on what?

Stop swerving, we can still see you.