To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

So people who can't have children shouldn't show an interest in other people's or ask after them?

@Runnerinthenight - I agree and am very sorry for your loss.

I spent years overcoming an eating disorder. I have to listen to colleagues chatting all the time about feeling too fat/ trying new and bizarre diets, what they are doing to slim down, what tiny lunches they are having and on and on and on. They often try and involve me and I politely make a non committal comment and tune them out because it’s my issue to deal with, not HR’s.

I must admit I never ask that question now as I’ve had a few replies over the years which made me think I shouldn’t ask, so I’ve stopped. I do think they were a bit heavy handed in how they handled it but guess the lady concerned was upset by the question

I would never ask this in a professional setting unless I was asked first or unless I knew the answer already …

Don't ask strangers personal questions. This lady wasn't a friend, or even a colleague the OP needed to build a working relationship with. She was a stranger. The OP had voluntarily made it known that she had children. This other lady hadn't. You aren't entitled to know about other people's lives.

Are you for real? How can you be this obtuse. I think you are reading a completely different thread to everyone else.

When my single friend asks after my kids and my grandkids she's interrogating me? Seriously?

Not if they're going to run to HR to complain about having their feelings hurt by a perfectly normal conversation, no.

Best they don't, so we all know where we stand.

@saraclara - see my other comment and have an award for your ability to twist any comment to fit the narrative you have in your head no matter how far from reality it actually is.

I’m guilty of asking the same but am really policing myself on it and I try not to. I had a period of infertility and loss and it was excruciating getting these questions. And had the blokes sat next to me at work lunches like pp making comments too, not realising what was happening privately.
However, people do seek out common ground and it can be really too easy on a kids chat topic to say ‘do you have kids too’.

Actually the more I think about this, the more the senior HR manager had no business raising this with you!

She's out of order. She should have had the courtesy to speak to your line manager and let him/her address it. You don't report to senior HR manager!

Not if they’re going to be offended if the same questions are returned to them, no.

@saraclara of course they can show an interest, but they shouldn’t then get offended if the other person asks if they have kids too.

It sounds like OP was just making conversation. An equivalent interaction would be “I hear you went to Barcelona, how was it, did you visit the football stadium?” “It was great thank you, loved it. Have you ever been?” And the person complaining later because they couldn’t afford to go abroad.

You have blamed the other person for starting a conversation about OP 's child. So you are saying that someone who can't have children shouldn't ask about other people's children (that they know they have) because it might lead to that mother asking if they have kids?

No, they can work away.

But they also shouldn’t be shocked if someone asks during that conversation “Do you have any children yourself?”

I had a chap at a previous role who was going through a tough time- started having seizures and now can’t drive. A young guy who loved his cars, so it had a massive impact on him. If he started talking about driving in general and a new colleague asked “What are you driving now?” should I call them and tell them off for asking a follow up question to a conversation he started?

I agree with you, OP. Asking someone if they have children, are married, live in a house, watch TV are just normal conversation topics, I would have thought.

But maybe not, anymore... People seem to take offence to everything these days.

We don’t know this happened or how the HR convo went. It may have felt more weighty and a
telling off due to the messenger.

I would have shook it off very fast & know
to be a bit more cautious in future.

Soon we will just give up talking to work colleagues about anything other than work. It’s all such a minefield now. Everyone is so easily offended. I also asked someone casually if they had kids the other day and as I was asking it I wondered if I shouldn’t be doing so. They were fine about it but what if they had fertility issues or had recently lost a baby. But then you could unwittingly upset someone on so many otherwise innocuous subjects 🤐

No it’s actually not fine. Not if personal questions are inappropriate for a work place conversation.

Op was told it was an inappropriate work place question.

Given that women’s careers are often damaged by having children, or talking about them too much it’s not an appropriate work place conversation.

Many women don’t like being asked about their kids, because men are not. And the constant reminder that they have kids can further damage their career.

Op could also have had post birth complications, or her child could be unwell or generally struggling and Op may not have appreciated the question.

You can’t have it both ways. If you want engage in chit chat and ask personal questions, expect personal questions back.

No, again you are not a fan of comprehension are you.

I have said that someone who finds certain topics of conversation shouldn’t voluntarily bring them up with a colleague they don’t know and then run to HR when the other person engages in that topic of conversation. It is not the same as your friend talking to you is it or whatever other irrelevant comparisons you have made.

Maybe just become really quiet and keep yourself to yourself and if anyone says you haven't said much just reply with - not aloud to these days.
And leave it there.

I am losing my mind every single day since it happened, but thank you.

"How was your Christmas?"

"The usual. My husband decided that Christmas dinner wasn't up to his standards and binned it before attacking me before smashing the kids' presents and storming off out to the pub. Yours?"

Seriously, don't put a DV victim in a position where she has to choose between lying and disclosure.

I think YABU
The conversation was about you as a single parent needing flexible working, so discussing the fact you have an DD and why you need flexible working isn’t small talk when discussing with anyone in HR. For her, it was a professional work discussion, not small talk.

You should not have used this as an excuse to ask her if she had children because it wasn’t small talk. I doubt she would have even wanted to ask you about your DD if the conversation hadn’t been about your flexible working request due having your DD!

They were right to verbally let you know this is unacceptable. HR is HR, they are not friends.

@saraclara

You have blamed the other person for starting a conversation about OP 's child. So you are saying that someone who can't have children shouldn't ask about other people's children (that they know they have) because it might lead to that mother asking if they have kids?

No - she's saying don't do this and then complain about the response so they get into trouble at work