To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

After my own baby losses, I've learnt to never ask anyone if they have children, I wait for them to volunteer this information. Sometimes I talk about my son first and leave space for them to join in the conversation or not, which indicates to me this isn't the topic they want to engage with.

It must be quite difficult to be around you, to be honest. People must have to walk on eggshells all the time because you react badly to fairly innocuous questions?
Hopefully you don't complain to HR every time someone cheerfully wishes you a Merry Christmas?!

I'm sorry that you've had that experience and I hope that you are now safe.

The comment about higher awareness was about at least one other PP too.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia - can you suggest some “safe” topics of conversation please.

Just to add to my earlier post, it was a heavy handed reaction from HR, but I would say particularly in the work environment this can be an extra sensitive topic not only because of what people may be going through personally, but also because it could be perceived as discriminatory talk (yours obviouslt wasn't but generally HR is probably tuned in to that and they've reacted the way they did). I'm guessing that lady got personally upset here.

How could it be perceived as discriminatory?!

I'll repeat that the memorised insincere stock phrases have been used against me at disciplinary and I now no longer use them.

"When your supervisor asked if you were OK, you said you were OK, and now you say you weren't. So are you lying now, or were you lying then?"

"I said I was OK because everyone says that, whether it's true or not."

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia thank you. I did react to your post that you couldn't believe you had to spell it out on a parenting website that abuse escalates at Christmas because that was an extreme reaction to just asking a colleague if they had a nice Christmas.i thought that was a bit unfair.

Did she actually complain tho ? Maybe she was quiet/upset and her line manager asked what was wrong sad she said about the convo - the lm may have contacted you unnecessarily, but lm may know more details and really feel for her colleague.

In summary, none of you really did anything wrong. Move on x

It could also be perceived as discriminatory to ask about someone’s children. If you chose to take it that way.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia it also sounds like you've had a really unfair experience with HR

At work? Don't have non-work conversations. Don't talk to anyone unless you have to. Act like the person you are talking to secretly hates you and is recording everything you say to be reported to someone higher who also hates you.

I found out over the summer that a colleague had spent three years actively sabotaging my work. He was foolish enough to admit this in writing so I was able to credibly inform our manager. However, this incident reminded me that no one can be trusted and to act accordingly.

You can tell the truth without details. I've experienced dv. I've been asked countless times about my child's father but I neither lie nor tell the whole truth.

I'm sorry that I caused you to react.

The Christmas question is slightly different - essentially because you can easily lie to get over the moment by saying your Christmas was good/quiet/relaxing even if it was anything but, and it's not a lie you'd have to sustain because no one's going to ask about your Christmas after the first week of January.

I've had some awful Christmases (abusive ex-partner) and nothing has ever come of me giving the standard answer "it was lovely, thanks, how was yours?" to people with whom I wasn't on such terms as to be telling them the truth.

You can't 'invent' 2.4 children to give an easy answer to the children question - well, you could, but you'd be in for sustaining the lie as long as you worked there, potentially tripping up over such details as what school year they should be in for their age, and if you were 'found out' people would probably leap to the conclusion you were deeply troubled.

OK, I am sorry you had a tough time, but your mindset with regards to workplace socialisation is extreme and paranoid and should not be used as an example on how to conduct yourself in the workplace or berate posters for asking people how their Christmas was.

Yeah you're right,

But going back to the original post nobody is asking anyone to invent any children. The person did not even have to ask about the OPs child but she chose to. She then said she didn't have children.

Wow...

I don’t think you did anything wrong. You were just having a chat and she was asking you questions about your child !!!

At work? Don't have non-work conversations. Don't talk to anyone unless you have to. Act like the person you are talking to secretly hates you and is recording everything you say to be reported to someone higher who also hates you.

I could not work in an environment like that. That would be like being on the stand in court again, but every day.

Anyway the OP seems long gone so we're probably all talking into the ether. I still think I'm broadly right but it was very interesting to get other perspectives on a subjective topic, so thank you all!

Oh, yes, I realise that. I was just addressing the point that asking whether someone has children is different from most other supposedly casual 'small talk' that may be difficult to answer truthfully, because it's almost impossible to give a socially polite false answer

I kind of agree with this. People should remember that colleagues are not friends. They are just people who are forced to work with you. You shouldn't treat them or trust them as you would friends. Of course, some might become friends over time, but most won't. Don't become overfamiliar, and never assume the boundaries that exist between strangers don't apply to work colleagues. That's how to avoid landing yourself in trouble. For example, I imagine a lot of us have had male colleagues talk inappropriately to us because they have a blurred idea of what the workplace relationship is. Their defense is always "I was joking/it was just a bit of harmless fun/do people not have a sense of humour anymore?" Just stay professional. Do your job.

I don’t see this as unreasonable. I do think it is unreasonable at work when people permanently talk about their children.
i worked with someone who couldn’t stop mentioning her ‘sproglets’ and little ones in every conversation etc despite the irritatingly twee language, I thought it was insensitive particularly to some team members who didn’t have children or partners. I felt it could make them uncomfortable as they couldn’t engage in a relatable conversation. In those circumstances I deliberately steer the conversation away from family.

@HollyKnight I do think there's a big difference between acting like your colleagues secretly hate you to remembering they're not your friends (yet.) I don't think my current colleagues (fellow managers/ technical experts) are my friends but if I acted like I thought they all hated me and were recording me I'd never get any effective work done. Got to be a middle four I'd surely.