To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

There is no context where bringing up someone’s children is relevant to their Flexible working request. Which is what I said.

In what way was asking about your child, relevant to your flexible working request? The fact that you were coming off maternity leave or had a child is irrelevant to a flexible working request process.

i think asking about a child in chit chat is fine. However, if you don’t want to talk about your personal life, don’t ask people about theirs.

Op could just as easily say ‘well I feel aggrieved she brought up my child. We were there to talk about a flexible working request, my child is irrelevant to a business meeting’.

Dont ask people, irrelevant, personal questions if you are touchy about people asking you, irrelevant, personal questions.

But if you ask someone else about their children, what are you expecting the response to be?

If someone asks you about your children but doesn't volunteer anything in return you should be able to tell something from that.

Totally. I know someone who was told the word 'stakeholders' was discouraged as it could be insulting. Still trying to figure out why.....

@KimberleyClark so it's okay to start a conversation about a person's children when you don't know that person, but not okay for that person to ask if you have children?

That's actually terrifying in it's complete absurdity. Jesus.

Thats not a conversation that’s an interrogation.

I never ask this question because some people have had to bury one or more of their children. For the same reason, I never ask about spouses and siblings and I never ask what someone's relationship is like with their parents.

It's one of those questions that seems reasonable until you think it through, all the way through, considering all the possible things that can happen to someone's loved ones.

That's ridiculous, frankly.
Op was asked a direct question about her children, but should have waited until her interrogator (as it were) volunteered information rather than asking a question in return?
That's not how normal social interaction works.

She literally started the conversation about children by asking after your child? Absolutely ridiculous.

@StarlightLime thank you, as always with mumsnet I begin to wonder if I'm living in different world

Ok, I'm just trying to find a rational reason why the senior HR manager might have spoken to OP directly. They have a colleague in their office in tears, because of something another colleague has said, however unintentional. Can they just do nothing? I dunno. Would it have been better if they had spoken to OP's manager to say that OP had upset a colleague can could OP's boss have a word about appropriate conversations in the workplace? That would have been way worse IMHO.

The alternative to finding a rational reason for it, we have HR managers behaving irrationally... Which is an even scarier thought to be honest.

she asked how things were going with DD

could be construed that you might not be coping with dd, otherwise why would she ask how is it going? It could be a personal triggering question

how far do we take this insulting talk

@MoreDollies as a manager you can't go in all guns blazing. You have to respond rationally and fairly especially when you know what you do is going to have an effect on the person you're speaking to. So you need to find out what happened and decide if it's something that requires intervention or not. Even if your report is in tears you don't go to someone else's manager unless you think there is justification, you deal with it yourself. You owe a duty of care to all employees especially do when you're in HR.

I'm upset and triggered by turnips, and yes I DO expect people at work and out in public, to be sensitive about the subject and not bring it up. You can literally never know how someone feels about them, so why mention them in the first place. YABVVU.

@MoreDollies and yes they can and should just do nothing (apart from talk to their own employee) if they think it's not serious enough for an intervention. You explain that to your employee. They don't dictate what you do.

Don’t be ridiculous.

It’s not possible for people to engage in meaningful interactions with their colleagues when they’re constantly trying to predict who would be offended by what.

The expectations of some posters on this thread are beyond unreasonable. Most people are decent. They’re not trying to upset anyone, be nosy or hurt anyone’s feelings- that’s certainly what comes across from OP’s description of the interaction.

Being heavy-handed and trying to police what workers can and can’t say to each other would make for a really unpleasant atmosphere within a very short period of time.

@Mhassy It is best not to ask OP. But better than saying 'how many kids do you have?'

I lost my mother far too young.

Does that mean nobody in the office can talk about their mums?

It's real life. People have to deal with the hand they're given.

Exactly. Your daughter could have just been diagnosed with cancer for all she knew. Honestly some people are triggered by anything and everything and it just gets very, very tiring.

Hugely OTT - especially since she asked you about your own children. If it was a topic she wanted to avoid, she didn’t have to bring it up.

Also @MoreDollies I don't want to keep tagging you because I think you're very reasonable compared to some of the posts and I don't want it to look like we're arguing 😂

Yes. The other person knew that OP had a child. So it was fine for her to ask about it. OP did not know whether she had a child so it was unwise to ask if she did.

I lost both my parents - and worked in schools where I was posting SM content ‘happy Mother’s Day!’ ‘Here is R1 class making fathered day cards!’. I dont expect the world to revolve around me.

Every topic has the potential to be triggering to someone. You could mention you’re excited to be going to the beach or a restaurant and for someone it could be linked to some terrible tragedy you’re not aware of.

I do think it’s OTT given the context however I try to avoid such questions. I think if the person says no then it can be a bit awkward as there’s no follow up so you have to move the conversation on.