To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

Frankly I think HR has a point.

I would never ask a colleague if they have children.

I just let them bring the topic if they wish.

Some people don't want to talk about their private life, might be unable to have kids, might have lost a child so I think it is better not to ask too many personal questions. Not to mention that it can be annoying if you are child free for people to assume that a woman must necessarily have kids.

Ultimately this is a workplace not a social occasion so you need to be a bit careful about what you say.

They did bring the topic

@MajorCleven I think we'll have to agree to disagree and I really won't feel strongly enough to debate it much further.

If the HR person did anything more than mention it, like making OP do additional "behavior in the workplace training, or a warning or disciplinary, I would agree it's over the top.

Snr HR just mentioned it. OP won't mention children to her colleague again so the issue is resolved.

You envy other peoples problems which could include infertility, miscarriage, stilbirth or the death of a child?

Yeah I guess so!

@Startingagainandagain Frankly I think HR has a point.

I would never ask a colleague if they have children.

Then maybe the HR person should have talked about the weather and not instigated a chat about a child? She led the conversation!

Perhaps you could politely suggest to HR OP that they train their team members not to start conversations about topics that are personally upsetting for them to discuss. Apparently common sense isn’t a given in your HR department. I wonder if she has done this before.

No, the problem was that she had nothing better do than complain.
Also people think this is funny and just 'nothing', but it demonstrates a very heavy handed approach and lack of nuanced thinking from HR. Not a good sign and when something more complex comes along it inevitably gets botched!

Well, exactly

If the HR person brought Ops child into the conversation then HR are unreasonable.

Op can just as easily say that her child shouldn't have been brought up. The reason for a flexible working request doesn't matter. The request doesn't hold more weight if there's a child involved. So it was irrelevant.

I would also say that you shouldn't bring up people's children, during a working meeting if you don't want people asking you personal questions either.

I would never ask someone if they had kids. But I also dont want people asking about my kids when it's irrelevant.

I'm sorry Op, but I completely agree with HR. I literally only lost my twin sons 14 weeks ago at 29 weeks pregnant. I literally buried my only children days before my birthday. It's unreal how many people think it's acceptable to ask me if I've children or will I try again.

I don't think you meant anything by it, but it's a sharp lesson to learn going forward.

Well, yes - what if OP had said well actually I'm having terrible problems, I have PND, I can't cope - and then complained to HR about the person asking about their child and then that person got a call from senior HR person about what they'd asked about. Would we all have been saying that was reasonable?

To be fair, I feel there are better questions to be asked. What is your response if the answer is no?

I'm really sorry for what happened. But people asking you these questions knowing what happened is completely different to the OP's situation here.

I lost two unborn children and my husband aged 24, before we ever had a successful pregnancy and I will never have the opportunity to start a family I desperately wanted now.

This woman could have said something to herself instead of telling the teacher, which IMO makes this interaction so much more awkward. Women need to start treating each other better. It's not insensitive or an act of spite to ask someone if they have kids.

Then she shouldn't start conversations asking about other people's children 🙄.

It's a normal enough question, whining to HR is so completely OTT I'm embarrassed for her and I've never even met her.

DespairAgony · Today 19:20

I lost two unborn children and my husband aged 24, before we ever had a successful pregnancy and I will never have the opportunity to start a family I desperately wanted now.

This woman could have said something to herself instead of telling the teacher, which IMO makes this interaction so much more awkward. Women need to start treating each other better. It's not insensitive or an act of spite to ask someone if they have kids.

Thank you for being so reasonable, and I am so sorry for all you have been through xx

I don't think you are unreasonable but you also haven't seen the other side of the conversation.

As the person you were chatting to works in HR she was asking you about your child because it was a precursor to you asking for flexible working. So she knew you had a child. Not knowing her back story, she might have been able to hold it together in the meeting and then fell apart once she got to her bit of the office (in front of her boss). Given that she told you that her time had passed, it suggests it was a sore subject.

With their HR hat on, her boss might have felt obliged to respond in some way to the colleague's upset, even though it was unintentional on your part. And, if that was the case, that would be why it was an informal comment rather than anything more formal.

Just a guess though.

This but the world has gone mad. God forbid anyone make conversation

@DespairAgony this stranger on the internet is thinking of you, you sound like a very sensible and even handed person

^This, exactly.

I'm getting fed up of this kind of nonsense in the workplace. By all means deal with overt behaviors such as racism etc., but this was small talk which was completely in the range of normal.

Unfortunately, the 'senior person' in HR has compounded the problem and generated even more mistrust. Who on earth are these people? The HR person who complained sounds like a bit of a PITA to be honest.

Not that any of this helps you, OP, other than you have my sympathy. I have a very serious health condition - do I burst into tears and complain to HR if someone else in the workplace just happens to mention something similar?

No, I don't ... because I'm an adult.

The thing is, there's always a reason people don't have children- even if it's just "I don't want children".

There is no reason why people have children, they just had them.

But part of being a manager (and a senior HR manager at that!) is knowing when it's appropriate to speak to someone 'sternly' or not. You don't protect your team members at all costs when they're not being reasonable, especially when you're in a position of power over others who aren't your direct reports. If another manager outside of HR had contacted OP about the same thing the context would the different. But as an HR manager they should have known better.

I'm very sorry for your experience and annoyed on your behalf at people who think it's right to ask such intrusive questions. But you, of all people would surely be the first to deflect the topic and steer the conversation away if this was painful for you?
This woman is a HR professional. She is supposed to be good at talking to people. And she should also know that these questions are not relevant, so she needn't even have asked OP!

I never ask people if they have children or if they're married/have a partner/have a boyfriend.

Over the years I have known enough people for whom those are really difficult conversations to have, to recognise that its not a good idea.

Their family situations come up naturally when sharing your own life usually. If you mention an issue with your kids or an incident with your partner, a new person will often respond with their own experience. So you get to know quickly enough.