To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

When people ask if you have children they are actually expecting you to say "yes" in my experience. Everyone always looks aghast/ embarrassed when I say no. What they REALLY mean is "how many children do you have and how old are they?". They are not expecting a woman to say she does not have children because it's not the norm.

I've taken to saying "no, I'm barren".

Then the ither person should not have asked the PP "how it was going?" (with her dc)

Yes exactly, people who think this is an overreach need to think about situations where this is someone’s honest answer to that question, something deeply painful that they may not want to share with strangers in the workplace.

Exactly. She may well have thought you were fishing for info to help your case.

Why are you trying to make this about gender?

I'm really surprised at how many pp think it is an inappropriate topic of conversation. I don't think it is. I think if someone is triggered by normal topics of conversation they should recognise that it is their own responsibility to cope with the arising emotions, not to complain and police what other staff can talk about.

You should have. There are a million reasons not to ask whether women have children. Keep to the weather or whatever. You should also never think that HR is on your side.

It's not a question I would ask as I've worked closely with several people who have experienced infertility, miscarriage or the death of a child. But I can see how it might easily come up in the context of your conversation with HR and it seems clear you meant no offence.

If you had been called into a formal meeting about it, or given a warning then I'd say it was totally over the top. But all they've done is advise that it's not an appropriate question to ask so I don't think they are being unreasonable. Personally if I'd inadvertently upset someone or made them feel uncomfortable at work I would want to know so I could avoid doing it again. Ideally, I'd rather they told me themselves but I can also understand why some people might find that difficult.

You were not unreasonable to ask the question and it's ridiculous for someone to complain about. Utterly ridiculous.

I would not have accepted this and told them that she asked detailed questions about your children. It's getting ridiculous. So now you can't talk about children in the workplace??

100% agree

I think this is OTT. If someone asks me about my child I will often ask if they have children back. It seems polite if I am telling them about my child. I would never ever ask why not if they said no, I would just smile, nod and move the conversation on.

I would be pretty wary of that woman going forward, she seems overly sensitive. If that’s such a difficult topic of conversation for her, I am not sure why she would be dealing with flexible working requests which are going to involve a lot of parents. You were not rude and I think if anything HR should have spoken to her about what she can and can’t handle in her role.

I don’t think you should be chastised for asking, but at the same time I don’t ask this. Or anything else particularly personal. People let slip the things that they want other people to know about them - chit chat can expand on that.

However I do think you’re being unreasonable for making this entirely about you. Have you given thought to how upset the other woman clearly was? Obviously you did not have any intent to hurt her, but impact matters too.

If as is suggested in the OP, the colleague started the chat about kids then it is a normal conversational step to ask 'do you have kids yourself?' In order to reciprocate the interest. She should have stayed off the topic if it's sensitive to her. Of course it's sensitive for some people, everybody knows this. But the OP didn't charge into the office bawling the question unexpectedly across the room. She was just following the line of conversation.

OP, you now know not to raise this with the colleague (or at this company) but it was odd. From your account you did nothing wrong.

It all seems like a bit OTT, however, many of my colleagues have children and they range from 26-68 years old (the colleagues not the kids) and not once has anyone asked me if I have kids. I don't, but I speak with people on a daily basis. I talk about my hobbies and interests and am very chatty but no one has openly asked this question. I'm not sure why really. No one would assume from my lifestyle that I didn't have children iyswim

betterangels · Today 18:34

Mhassy · Today 16:27

Wasn’t given a warning or anything but it was a stern conversation like I should have known
You should have. There are a million reasons not to ask whether women have children. Keep to the weather or whatever. You should also never think that HR is on your side.

Why do people insist on being personal and insulting towards anyone who works in HR? We are just human beings doing our job to the best of our ability, the same as you are!!

We're not on ANYONE'S side. That's just ridiculous. We are there to make sure the organisation treats its staff fairly according to their terms and conditions and the law.

I think it’s a fine & normal question to ask. Like, are you married, do you have children etc. seems over sensitive of the lady to me & quite heavy handed of your HR.

I think if you had children it would naturally come up over time with regular colleagues. I think it’s different for a one off meeting in which the OPs children were asked about first.

Most people do manage to cope with their emotions around sensitive topics but it's not always something that can be done immediately. It usually takes time and there are a number of things that can be very raw for people.

I wasn't aware that there was a time limit on recovery after miscarriage, infertility, a child's death. How long before people who "get over" these unfortunate situation? Days, weeks, years? That lady may have found out that morning her last round of ivf falled, who knows but something really upset her. Not the OPs fault at all, but she was genuinely upset.

Let me assure you, the last thing anyone with experience of sensitive topics like this wants is to be struggling with their emotions, to have people at work pick up on it etc. Do you really think anyone gets upset about such things by choice? It's involuntary, as is their situation.

@Runnerinthenight - 100% not my experience of HR at all. In my experience HR is there to protect the company from its employees and nothing more. I have had bosses admit as much. Must have had the misfortune of only ever experiencing and observing poor HR…

How horrid for you. You clearly meant no malice and thought it was almost a bonding exercise, she was asking you a bunch of stuff about your kid, that surely is irrelevant to your work? You asked an innocent question now a stuffed shirt wanted a word. Gawd. You had no way of knowing that would be offensive, but you definitely won't be doing it again will you. I guess maybe the HR lady just could've lost a baby recently or something. Just move on and avoid making small talk with her in future.

You should have known, you know now.

I would never ask if someone has children. One of my very close friends in work doesn't have DC. I have been asked by other people quite a few times why they don't have any. No-one else's business.

It can be a very sensitive topic, heart breaking for some people. You should err of the side of caution and be thoughtful.

The issue is that OP was there to talk about flexible working and one reason for requesting it was childcare and her single parent status thus acceptable to talk about this.

It was not appropriate to then ask another person about their status too. The meeting was not about that person and her status. If that person has lost a child or can't have children and they were uncomfortable with OP asking then of course it was OK for them to ask someone else to have a quiet word with OP to say she should not raise this subject again with that person without OP having to be told the precise reason why it is sensitive to that person.

That HR lady is truly deranged to have complained about such a thing. I envy other people's 'problems' so much.

ThirtyThrillionThreeTrees · Today 18:44

Let me assure you, the last thing anyone with experience of sensitive topics like this wants is to be struggling with their emotions, to have people at work pick up on it etc. Do you really think anyone gets upset about such things by choice? It's involuntary, as is their situation.

If that is the case, then this lady is not suited to dealing with flexible working requests, which are very often to suit childcare. She would be best off working off somewhere else where she wouldn't be at risk of being upset.

Someone asks about your child, it's a natural response to politely reciprocate.

So maybe she should reframe her chitchat as well, if she doesn't want to be asked the question!