To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

I turn my back for a few hours and you lot start brawling like drunken sailors on shore leave…

HoneyButterPopcorn · Today 20:15

I turn my back for a few hours and you lot start brawling like drunken sailors on shore leave…

Only the one lol! The rest of us were well-behaved! 😄

@StarlightLime 😂😂😂

@HoneyButterPopcorn brawling like drunken barristers apparently 😂

Noideawwhatsoccuring · Today 20:23

@StarlightLime 😂😂😂

@HoneyButterPopcorn brawling like drunken barristers apparently 😂

Don't forget the HR advisers too!! 😂

Come off it. So what protected characteristic of the Equality Act might the OP have broken? How, merely by asking the question 'And do you have children?' in response to enquiries about her own child, did she discriminate against or persistently harass the woman questioning her?

If you're an employment barrister then I'm a custard cream.

Agree. Absolutely sick of people asking this question. And it's always those that have children that ask and say oh you don't have much time left.
It's not a question that should be asked.
Far too personal and nosy
You never know what the other person is going through
Also
I am sick of parents thinking they are entitled to time off during the holidays but childless folk should not be.
I am someone's child too and like to visit my mum during the holidays and my niece's and nephews.

Then remember not ask about parents personal lives, especially during a work meeting (as this was labelled) when it’s not relevant. You never know what another person is going through.

Not all of us want to discuss our kids. Not all of us want that to be part of a working meeting.

Don’t start a conversation about a subject if you don’t want reciprocal questions, about that subject, asked.

If you don’t ask about people’s children, during work meetings when it’s irrelevant, than you are talking about a completely different situation.

People just need to grow up and use common sense as to what is and what isn’t appropriate. Running off to HR with hurty feelings?

General chit chat in the office kitchen waiting for your soup to come out of the microwave:

Family/leisure - fine
Any holidays planned? - fine
nice weekend - fine
do you know any decent hairdressers/dry cleaners/cake shops hear here? - fine

probing personal questions (I hear your mum died… what was it? Car crash? Overdose? Cancer?) - not fine
’Have you/do you think Jenny on accounts has had a boob job?’ - not fine
Sex life - not fine
Politics and football - best avoided (as we say in Glasgow)

I you don’t want to talk to your colleagues about anything other than work, well that may look a bit unfriendly (but they might all be jerks or a’holes), but why not (we go to work to pay the bills after all).

Personally I think given the context of your conversation- flexible working because of childcare I would find your question inappropriate. I would read it as a clumsy attempt at rapport building and a bit of a way to find an “in” with the person leading the conversation -rather than genuine interest.

Are you really interested in whether a woman you have been in a room with for 2minutes has kids or were you trying to find common ground?

I personally wouldn’t ask someone if they have children or how many children they have because having lost a child these are not always the innocent questions they seem to be because you just don’t know what’s going on or gone on in peoples lives. However I also know that not everyone realises this and obviously you didn’t know this was a trigger for the other person. Presumably you explained you didn’t know and didn’t mean any harm and I’d leave it there. Maybe be a bit more mindful in the future.

Childcare is irrelevant when talking about a flexible working request.

The reason for any flexible working request is entirely irrelevant. Ops child was irrelevant. By making it relevant, the person could the company vulnerable to claims of discrimination.

Flexible working request shouldn’t take into account the reason for the request to ensure fairness.

Do you think the woman asking was genuinely interested in the child of a woman she was in a room with for 2 minutes. Or just making chit chat?

YANBU I don't think you were being inappropriate at all. Anything could be a "sore point" for anyone really. It seems no one can have a conversation anymore without running the risk of offending someone.

OTT – and does this 'high up' HR person really have nothing better to do than ring you up about it?!

The other woman actively volunteered sensitive info by saying 'the time had passed' for her to have children. She could have just said 'No, I don't' and then moved things on to the subject meeting.

There's nothing to suggest the HR person was making the OP's children relevant to the request for flexible working. If the OP's child was teething presumably the child is still very new and presumably the OP had been on maternity leave which is knowledge the HR person already had.

I agree that the OP's question was irrelevant and inappropriate.

It is not about “offending”. It can be a sensitive and painful issue for a woman (or man) that has been unable to have children. Surely you can see the difference?

I have had colleagues ask me if I have children and it is usually followed by an awkward pause that I am usually forced to fill with something lighthearted. I tolerate colleagues asking, but I would rather they didn’t / hadn’t. But I do not expect to walk into a formal meeting with a colleague I do not normally work with and be questioned about my fertility or life choices.

Funnily enough I have never ever had to ask any colleague whether they have children, because nobody I have worked with that has children has ever failed to mention them. My point being, there is no need to ask anybody this question.

It's a bit like that unfunny joke about "how do you know someone is a vegan? Don't worry they'll tell you"

Except it's generally true for parents - unless of course it's a situation where they don't want to mention their children.

Posters are assuming the HR person went off in high dudgeon to her superior to complain about this. It could equally be nothing more than something which came out of feedback about the flexible working request and a question to the superior along the lines of "it's not really appropriate to be asking that question of work colleagues , is it" "no, I'll mention it "

@Aprilx my point is that nearly anything brought up in casual small talk has the potential to be a sensitive topic.
"Got any holiday plans?"
"No, we've just been declared bankrupt and can't afford to keep our home, let alone go on holiday."

That is a strange, oversharing thing to say in reply to the question “do you have children”. Most people would just say no. Makes me wonder if OP has been entirely candid about the conversation and that the HR person didn’t report her JUST for asking if she had children.

And your point is flawed. I mean are you seriously comparing not going on holiday to infertility? Or even bankruptcy? Did you really refer to infertility as a mere “sore point”?

Incredible isn’t it.

I wouldn't ask that either. Partly because I'm not interested tbh and people who have their dream holiday of a lifetime planned will tell you anyway. Others won't want to tell you anything about what they're doing.

I might ask "will you be off in ...as I'm planning to take a couple of weeks then"

This sounds like self-justifying excuses. Is it in employees' contracts that they mustn't make bog-standard, everyday chitchat with other employees? Are they trained to tiptoe around on eggshells talking only about work and the weather in order to avoid causing offence or hurt? Are the sensitive souls who are easily offended given any training to help them understand that they can't control the things that others say to them, but they can control the way they feel and react? If not, then it's bananas to consider this exchange inappropriate.

No wonder MH issues are sky high and people are fleeing the workplace and work if everyone has to tailor their behaviour to meet the needs of the most sensitive person in the workplace. I'm not suggesting for a moment that rape jokes and sexist remarks or anything unpleasant or openly hurtful is acceptable — but we surely all know there's a middle ground where people can show who they are politely and respectfully to each other (because OP's exchange was polite and respectful) without fear of being shot down? It's a recipe for paranoia.

@Aprilx where did I mention infertility? Get your facts right before accusing me. I merely make the point that anything has the potential to cause upset. Not ranking things on a scale of how upsetting they are.

In which case, the HR person's question was also irrelevant and inappropriate.

If the OP having a child had nothing to do with the flexible working request, it's irrelevant.

If asking questions about people's family life because you may inadvertently step on a sore point is not OK at work, then it was inappropriate. "Do you have children?" And "How's it going with your DD?" both equally run that risk.

You can't have it both ways - either both OP and HR bod were in the wrong or neither were.

At a stretch you could plausibly argue that the OP wasn't wrong but the HR person was, since the HR person was in the position of power in that meeting (considering whether to grant a request of the OP) and potentially giving the impression that an irrelevant and potentially discriminatory reason (children) was relevant when it wasn't - opening the company up to legal challenge.

There is no plausible world in which the OP can be in the wrong but the HR person not.

Personally, I think neither were wrong, but you pays your money, you takes your choice between those three options only.

This. If the chit chat is about babies,teething etc anyone with children or who wants to talk about their own children will naturally make a comment in response about their own children at that stage. If they don't mention any experience of their own children, you don't ask them if they have kids and you just assume they're politely talking to you about yours. I thought this was just basic human conversational skills.