To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

No it’s not. Part of the objection was that this was a work meeting.

People managers and HR should be able to put the conversation back on track if it’s irrelevant.

Totally bonkers!
1- why couldn't that HR person manage that conversation at the time?
2- why would it be OK to ask you about your child in a meeting? Was she inferring you were struggling/ couldn't cope or that she should make small talk about your child because you're a mum and that's all you do?

I wouldn't take it further because nothing formal has come of it. I would just be wary of the ridiculous culture in your workplace!

It's not been said though that HR mentioned her child though. It could very well be that the OP mentioned her in which case it's entirely not inappropriate for HR to engage in polite conversation as long as she wasn't asking anything intrusive, and nothing in the OP suggests she did.

Oh, stop reaching.

I know. One can't help wondering whether @IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle is a secretly panicked HR professional who puts female employees at their ease by asking about their children in the preamble to meetings...

Yes that’s why I pointed out 2 suggestions depending on wether op brought the child up or the other person did.

Op said the woman asked how things were going with dd. She don’t need to. Part of the telling off op got was because it was a work conversation. Which this person also actively engaged in. During a work conversation it’s not appropriate to discuss ops children.

If someone is going off tangent during a work conversation you don’t need to engage if you don’t want to join in.

Isn’t the point here that some people find somethings intrusive and others don’t?

Or does this other woman get to decide what she finds intrusive and what others should find intrusive?

Again, don’t ask people personal questions if you don’t want them to ask you personal questions.

This. Particularly this bit:

Or does this other woman get to decide what she finds intrusive and what others should find intrusive?

**

But we don't actually know she asked anything about OPs child other than how she is doing which may have been necessary to be polite if OP had mentioned her first. Whereas asking if she had children wasn't necessary to be polite and quite obviously an inappropriate thing to ask a colleague. Without knowing the whole conversation we can't assume HR was inappropriate whereas we know clearly OP question was, we don't need to make stuff up about HR person. It could have been entirely rude and complaint worthy if OP had mentioned her child and HR told her not to mention her children. OP clearly took no offense in being asked how her DD was doing whereas HR did take offense to being asked if she had children, probably because it's obvious that she haven't given anything in response to indicate that she does which is why OP asked. OP has learnt if they don't say, don't ask. She was disciplined for it, she was simply informed it's not appropriate.

Asking about something someone is happily talking about (as OP clearly was if she was telling her about teething) is obviously not the same as asking someone for info you don't know.

Such active imaginations, although it's surprising that can't extend to see how inaporopriate the OP's behaviour was.

No. I'm not. I do however find intrusive questions from people I have no connection with other than at work about my family, my holidays and what I do outside of work very irritating.

The OP was out of order asking if the HR person has children. We don't have enough information on the conversation before that to decide if HR was out order.

Asking about something someone is happily talking about (as OP clearly was if she was telling her about teething) is obviously not the same as asking someone for info you don't know.

Yes, it's clearly different. Not sure why some posters are struggling so much. Probably because they've never given a second thought to asking work colleagues intrusive and nosey questions.

Surely op told her about her dd's teething in response to being asked how her dd was?

My original post, that you quoted, included a situation where op may have been the one to bring it up.

But you are missing the point. The woman complained that she was asked a personal question. After asking a personal question. The complainer may have felt they should. The Op also felt she should enquire so she could reciprocate and show interest.

The person who told Op off said it was inappropriate question for a work meeting. The context wasn’t asked or taken into account. In which case asking personal questions of the Op was also inappropriate. Regardless of context. Just like ops question was deemed inappropriate regardless of context.

Op didn’t know this woman took offence at the time. So the woman had no way of knowing if Op took offence.

We don’t know Ops question was inappropriate at all. You just decided it is. The HR woman, asked a personal question. It’s right there. Then complained the Op then asked a personal question.

If personal questions are appropriate in a work setting, it’s inappropriate. If Op had started an inappropriate conversation HR should have diverted it. Not asked a personal question.

Except we didn't actually get the HR persons question in the OP. OP said she asked after DD, giving us no context. If she asked after OP and OP said "oh I'm tired, DD isn't sleeping" asking "aw how is she doing?" Is not compatible to OPs question and is not a personal question, it's courtesy. It's not necessarily inappropriate for OP to talk about her daughter, especially as it sounds like she offers information unsolicited so there isn't a need for HR to divert the conversation. Some people are acting as if HR was quizzing OP on her daughter's private information. This was also a meeting about OP, not about HR person. Once again, OP didn't get disciplined she just got informed in case she isn't aware that it's a sensitive question and beat to avoid at work.

Well yes but isn't it obvious when you have a meeting with someone at work who isn't a colleague that they're being polite and you politely answer "fine thanks" not dive into the ins and outs of what's currently going on with your child? Or do you think HR actually was enquiring for the latest news on OPs baby? Again, if people can relate to teething, they'll likely respond in kind and there isn't a need to ask if they have kids.
Edited to add that if OP returns to say HR was quizzing on DD latest milestones then yes that's totally inappropriate! But so far there's nothing that indicates she was.

Basically this. I'm not sure why we need to know if HR was being unreasonable also, OP didn't ask that or suggest they were. She asked.if it's unreasonable to ask a colleague if they have kids even though she already had her answer from HR.

Well yes but isn't it obvious when you have a meeting with someone at work who isn't a colleague that they're being polite and you politely answer "fine thanks" not dive into the ins and outs of what's currently going on with your child?
You're just arguing for the sake of it now 🤷🏻‍♀️
It's either inappropriate to ask personal questions relating to people's families or it isn't.

Now you're placing the blame back on op for not following your the script!

Don't be ridiculous. The info HR woman didn't know was "how is DD doing?" Thats the nature of a question. It would be extremely weird to only ask questions everyone knows you already know the answer to.

You seem determined not to acknowledge that the HR person was asking a personal question about OP's family. She was.

There is no difference in the nature of the question asked by OP and the question asked by HR except that you personally can easily envisage the latter touching a raw nerve but can't stretch your imagination into someone else's shoes to imagine how the former might touch a far nerve in someone else.

Any question outside of a strict robotic work context runs the risk of accidentally stepping into something because life and people are complex.

The options you have are to ban all non-work talk to ensure no-one is ever accidentally hurt or (and I really commend this to you as a mantra for life) expect adults to make an effort to take things in the spirit they were intended when it is abundantly clear no malice was intended.

You do not have the option to ban only your personal hobby horse questions (while absolving yourself for any questions you personally can't see any danger in for you), and certainly not to ban them in your own mind and then come down on unsuspecting colleagues like a tonne of bricks when they unknowingly transgress.

Such hypocrisy on this thread in places!

Incidentally, for those saying anyone with a child will pipe up about their own without being asked - no, they wouldn't. If you were talking about your children for some time and failed to ask me a reciprocal question I would think you were a bit self-involved and bad-mannered!

YABU, not so much for asking as that seems to have been innocent but your reaction to it. Your post comes off as you being very defensive. If someone pulls you up on something being inappropriate in the work place just learn from it and move on. You have even acknowledged yourself how hard questions about children can be so there must be part of you that thinks you maybe shouldn't have asked but instead of just admitting that your looking for validation on the Internet.

I think it's the hypocrisy from HR woman that would stick in my craw. Rules for thee but not for me.

I was interviewing for a senior position in a large multi-national company and was told by HR I could not ask any interviews about whether they had children.
That was 25 years ago.

Due to equality legislation and the risk of it being perceived as having an effect on whether or not the interviewee was offered the job or not.

In this scenario the power dynamic was that the HR woman was the equivalent of the senior interviewer and the OP the equivalent of the interviewee. Making the HR question more inappropriate than the OP's.

You are missing the point.

and no one said she was disciplined.

Personal questions aren’t appropriate for a work meeting. That’s what the Op was told.

if that’s the rule then HR should have been fully aware to not engage in personal chit chat. Whether op mentioned her child first or did not. And sound have diverted the conversation.

Again, even if someone else starts the conversation, don’t engage and ask questions if you don’t want people to reciprocate.

Exactly. The HR person will have known OP has recently had a child. Asking about that child, acknowledging the existence of that child is miles different from the OP asking if the HR person has children.

If she hadn't then we'd have had the OP moaning on MN that she'd had a meeting with HR about flexible working for childcare and the person showed no interest in the child (I'm nit saying the op would do this it's just an example).

I too wonder if the actual conversation was slightly different to what we were told, but then everyone posting on here will do so with themselves in a favourable light.

The bottom line is what many other people have said and that is if you don't know someone has a child/children (and again HR lady knew OP had a child) don't ask. It's that simple. No need to accuse people of running off to complain or being childish.

I see we're now getting an invented scenario that HR was making the child a reason for justifying flexible working.

We all know anyone can apply for flexible working for whatever reason and don't have to give a reason. However, in my experience people do mention in conversation why they want this arrangement, even if it is to watch neighbours every day.

The world has gone mad.

Everyone is way too precious you can't ask anyone anything without the fear of it upsetting someone or making a complaint. Conversation is dead

So many people are having problems conceiving these days that I would never ask whether they had them or not. It’s a sore point to be aware of generally.