To have been told off by HR for this?

[Mhassy]

I asked a member of the HR team if they had children, in the context of discussing a flexible working request. This was in the small talk/intro part of the conversation, it wasn’t said to make a point or anything, or to bolster my request for flexible working. It was literally a polite back and forth before the actual meeting began, she asked how things were going with DD, I mentioned some new teething and it was all very chatty and I just asked - I thought politely! - if she had children. She told me she didn’t and the time had passed for her to now. We then moved onto the meeting itself.

Anyway, a day later I have a called from someone high up in HR to say I shouldn’t ask people if they have children and this is not an appropriate question in the workplace.

I do get that pregnancy etc can be a sensitive topic. I lost a baby a few years ago and it was and incredibly painful time at work and I felt triggered by any small talk about babies. However I would never have made an issue and I didn’t make an issue when the topic was raised.

AIBU to think this is a step too far to be policing this sort of conversation? I am recently a single parent and wouldn’t launch into being offended if I was asked if I had a partner? Where does it end? I was only making conversation!

Key is appropriate interpersonal relationships. I work in a role were team is very important, for support,safety and learning. The interpersonal makes things easier and work. As the work it’s intense and scary if you are not sharing and maintaining appropriate interpersonal relationships as a buffer & defence

I swear to god, the world has gone fucking mad!

I don't see that as inappropriate either. The dentist is a healthcare professional, you were speaking to him in a healthcare setting, not chatting to him at the bus stop - if he was fazed by mention of your cervix, that's his problem, not yours.

I must remember tomorrow not to ask my colleagues how their evenings were, how half term is going, how one colleague is coping with an issue they confided in me with. Must remember they are all out to get me and I should only talk about work. Given we work on individual projects that will be a fun future of silence for me. I am sure my mental health will love it.

@Runnerinthenight Rape Crisis estimate that around one quarter of women are the victim of an an attempted or completed rape at some point during their lives. One girl in four has been sexually assaulted by age 16. Victims of sexual violence are not the tiny minority that you think they are and for that reason alone rape "jokes" shouldn't be allowed at work. Plus you have the issue of how most attempts to make a joke out of rape (I say "most" because Wanda Sykes "detachable pussy" routine is a notable exception) normalise it and you really do not want to normalise sexual assault in your workplace. I stated upthread that HR should reserved for malicious and persistent acts? The kind of comment that "Steve" makes is HRable in my view because it's inherently malicious towards women.

one colleague is coping with an issue they confided in me with

She confided in you so you wouldn't be wrong to ask. She kind of gave permission(?) to you to talk about it with her. I think she's crazy to confide in anyone she works with, but then maybe she hasn't had someone be nice to her face whilst actively sabotaging her work for three years straight.

As has been demonstrated very clearly on this thread, I literally cannot speak without being misunderstood and mocked. So I don't at work, unless I absolutely have to. The replies I've had on this thread prove why I need to do this.

I must remember tomorrow not to ask my colleagues how their evenings were, how half term is going, how one colleague is coping with an issue they confided in me with.

'How their evenings were' is a slightly odd question, unless someone had mentioned they were doing something particular.

Half term - meaningless to those without (school age) children - I presume you'd only ask those who did have school age children.

Issue confided by colleague - 'confided' is the key word here. If someone has confided something to you, it's obviously OK to follow this up (in an appropriately private setting).

How do I differentiate "appropriate" from "inappropriate" reliably whilst autistic, other than by being really private and avoiding anything not work-related as I do now?

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia - but she shouldn’t have - it was unprofessional.

I actually think you’ve been pretty manipulative with some of your replies here and have enjoyed being the victim with your drip feeds and accusations at points. So yeah, won’t be taking any of your advice.

This

then retrospectively gone back to posts before the drip feeds to make out the posters are targeting their autism and other life events were would need to be psychic

I said, mistakenly because I misread chononology of posts, that posters were ignoring my circs. I didn't say anyone was targeting me over them. And even after I posted everything as a bullet list, there are still posters calling me "bizarre", this thread a "loony bin", etc.

As I said already, the replies I've had on this thread prove that I literally cannot speak without people misinterpreting and misunderstanding me. So it's better that at work, where I need to not be fired so that I keep getting paid, that I don't say anything that my work doesn't require me to.

Funnily enough that was sarcasm as, as a working adult I can be professional and appropriate whilst maintaining social niceties and not revert to being a robot constantly scouring HR policies. Again very pleased I don’t work with a lot of you.

Thanks for again proving my point: "that I literally cannot speak without people misinterpreting and misunderstanding me. So it's better that at work, where I need to not be fired so that I keep getting paid, that I don't say anything that my work doesn't require me to."

If you choose to be really private because that's how you best navigate the work place that's entirely your right and choice.

However, that doesn't mean that anything you think isn't appropriate isn't appropriate as fact.

We learn what's appropriate and what's not by experience. It's more difficult for those of who are ND because we, often, can't take one experience and use that to navigate lots of other similar situations.

My teenager is also autistic and struggles with this. It does mean that we tend to be more introverted. However, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world needs to behave in the way we find it best to navigate these situations.

As this thread shows different people feel different ways about things. I hated 'sorry for your loss' but can understand people's intent. So although it annoyed me a complaint would be ridiculous. As would a complaint about people asking for me if I had a nice Christmas because they hadn't heard my mum died just before Christmas. Again, it bothered me but that doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong. If you said 'sorry for your loss' and it bothered me, its OK for me to be bothered by it and still OK for you to have said it.

And other people will have different opinions. If we worked together and you said 'sorry for your loss' and I cried to HR, the correct response would be for them to be understanding of it upsetting me. But not raising it with you because you didn't do anything wrong.

Because management are morons. This is universally the case everywhere.

I was sent to a team-building event where the practical challenge involved latex balloons. One of the participants was allergic to latex. We haven't had another team-building event since then, strangely.

It's a pretty common allergy and you'd have thought that someone would have asked whether anyone attending was latex-allergic first.

Yeah, exactly. I'd worry quite a bit over getting on a plane with a cabin crew taking care not step on each other's toes over children, holidays, illnesses lest they want to be told off. It shouldn't be a priority in a cramped space like that in the first place, pun not intended.

@Noideawwhatsoccuring I gave thanks because most of your last post demonstrated understanding.

I quibble this: However, that doesn't mean that anything you think isn't appropriate isn't appropriate as fact. because that's not what I was trying to say when I said things like "don't do that". My explanation of what I did mean is quoted above. I was using imperative verbs to give advice, not stating facts. There are very few facts in this world and last time I looked I didn't have to say "IMO" whenever giving an opinion just in case it was mistaken for a fact. Maybe I should add that to my defences? I don't know why it's OK to say "leave the bastard" but not OK to say "don't ask that".

The way I do things, by not asking personal questions, means that I can't ask someone a question that can hurt them. By never asking any personal questions, there's no risk of misjudging whether a question is OK or not.

The replies to me on this thread have illuminated starkly why my policy of never saying anything not work-related is correct for me. I've been accused of being manipulative, mad, and of having "enjoyed being the victim" (perhaps that poster would like to "enjoy" my autism and my rape history and my toxic colleague?) all because I don't know how to express people-related stuff well.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia - (perhaps that poster would like to "enjoy" my autism and my rape history and my toxic colleague?) - these things are not unique to you so please do not assume things about me or other posters. They are also not at all relevant to the argument you are making and my issue with it, in that it’s an extraordinary response to your experience and is not relevant or helpful to the vast majority of work communication or the OP.

I am done now because it’s like speaking to a wall.

You clearly tried to state your opinions as facts. And tried to tell people what is definitively OK what's not.

If you find it easier to navigate the world like that, that's OK. But it's not how everyone else has to act.

I also think given your offensive post about all managers being 'morons' deeply offensive. I would assume, given you think that's appropriate to write. The incidents you have spoken about have been far more offensive than you care to acknowledge.

And I am ND. But it would be entirely inappropriate for me to say 'all admin staff, everyone one of them is uneducated or useless', because I have come across some admins who weren't great at their job. It would also be entirely inappropriate to use very offensive language and claim I didn't know because I am ND.

I also think given your offensive post about all managers being 'morons' deeply offensive. I would assume, given you think that's appropriate to write. The incidents you have spoken about have been far more offensive than you care to acknowledge.

Do you really think that I would say that to management or in any forum where I thought it could be credibly relayed to them? I'm autistic, not stupid.

It's what bottom-tier workers everywhere think. I've never worked anywhere where the bottom-tier staff didn't voice disparaging opinions about management when amongst themselves.

The incidents you have spoken about have been far more offensive than you care to acknowledge.

Telling a store manager who had put a flatpacked end-of-life seasonal display in front of a fire extinguisher, obstructing it got me threatening, to give an example of an incident. So much for "safety is everyone's business".

"You can't put that there, it's obstructing a fire extinguisher" wasn't met with "fair point, but perhaps 'shouldn't' and 'please' next time?" nor was it met with "do you have a better suggestion of where to put it?", it was met with him backing me against a door and saying right into my face "look, I don't have time for this". That's the one I remember most clearly, from decades ago, because I was genuinely scared. I was scared before I spoke, that's why my language was so unfiltered, but I knew I had to say something because it was a safety risk. Bullies like that can detect autistic people, that we are vulnerable and can be intimidated.

I still won't shop at the Co-op.

I'm going to hide this thread because recalling that incident has made me shakey and my heart beat really fast like I was at the time, and I don't think that continuing to argue with people who think I'm "mad" and "enjoy being a victim" will help with that.

Wow, what a petty reaction. YANBU.

You’d fit right in to the old USSR! Or perhaps you took 1984 as a literal handbook.

Grow up!

Would those posters who think it an appropriate question be offended by the reply “no, and that’s all I want to say on the subject”?

When you are asked you have no idea whether the questioner will move on to another subject or start digging. That’s why you dread the question.

No, of course I wouldn't be offended. And I'm a woman who doesn't have children (for various reasons) and wouldn't have found the question offensive in the first place.

@KimberleyClark

Would those posters who think it an appropriate question be offended by the reply “no, and that’s all I want to say on the subject”?

Well there are ways of saying no that don’t necessitate being that blunt. Adults learn techniques for diverting conversations away from sensitive subjects. ( or some do…. Some don’t judging by this thread). Even if someone responded as you suggest and even if the OP / whoever was offended I doubt they’d go running to HR to complain about it. That’s the part I have an issue with. You can’t prevent the whole world from touching on bruising subjects but you can formulate responses to many of them.