To think that ow genuinely fall for the lies their men spin?

[aimans]

Men who have affairs, leave or are kicked out, destroy their children's mental health, speak awfully about their wives/exes , ignore/ let down their kids regularly especially when an offer of sex/ drink etc comes up?
The majority of us know that these men are shit in every way but do you really think that their OW's believe their bullshit or underneath it all, are cut from the same cloth?

And who are you to decide who is a "quality woman". You sound absolutely vile. This entire thread is misogynistic venom. Try blaming your vile husbands who put their penises before their families. Calling another woman names doesn't make you any more intelligent, any more beautiful, any better as a human. You both fell for his lies. And look at the amount of wives on this forum alone who take back their cheating husbands. Look at the amount of threads on the relationship boards where men have been cheating for years. Is that the woman's fault for being 'less intelligent'? Or can we all agree that the man is a cock-womble instead of constantly blaming women and giving the men a get-out-jail free card because he's a man and clearly can't help it 🙄

XH told OW (who happened to be a friend of mine!) that I was:
unsupportive, was uncaring, didn't understand him (etc etc. You know, the usual Script). Oh and that we'd split up.

Truth was: I was the breadwinner; I was supporting him and doing my best for him; I was trying to coordinate (and pay for!) multi-agency help for him to get sober/clean (whilst working FT, keeping the house in good nick and parenting the kids); that we'd separated (temporarily) in order for HIM to get time/space to get sober/clean; that we were working on saving the marriage (that had been wrecked through years of his addictions, and abuse from those addictions).

As a supposed friend, she could have spoken to me, or asked me how I was doing or what was happening. She never did. She either fell for the lies, or conveniently chose to ignore the truth (or try to find out the truth). I believe in her case, it was the latter.

Now, he made the wedding vows to me, in front of our families and friends. He broke them, which is disgusting. He could have just dumped me first/ended the marriage and then gone off with her (I would have had more respect/acceptance of that), but he chose to behave in a disgusting and deceitful way. She didn't make any vows (but she was at my wedding so knew fine well we were married, and she knew we had young children), but I still, to this day, can't understand how a friend could treat another in such a way.

In hindsight, they both did me a big favour. I will never trust anyone again like I used to. And my life is a lot more peaceful now than it was. Still, a few months down the line, she (and he) came crawling back after they split up.

waterdusky..... women lie and cheat too.

@waterdusky You've missed the whole point of the thread. You need to read my responses.

I've always turned down married men who have tried to flirt or have even made more explicit offers than that. Mainly because I didn't want a messy, complex life full of heartbreak.

In one case only I remember being tempted:
I was new in town and a bit lonely, and I remember there was a thought there that perhaps I was special in some way that his wife was not.
But then I thought harder and considered that actually his wife and I were probably very similar people, just in very different situations and that we were equals.
And I thought about how unremarkable the guy probably was if you got to know him behind closed doors (even though lots of women around town fancy him, and he can be charismatic).
I imagined how his wife probably has to pick his socks up. And then I went online to read about people who had affairs. I was relatively naive in the ways of men, but by going online and reading in forums such as MN and others, I realised that it's all a big game to these men and they are using you for sex. It's such a cliched pattern and I did not want to be duped.
And also I thought how no man on earth is worth two women. How men are just not really all that, and that they should not be encouraged to think that they are. Chump Lady calls being the Other Woman "sucking the cock of the patriarchy". It just didn't fit in with feeling that I was a feminist.

So that is the story of my swerve away from all that. I guess the main thing is that I am not especially impulsive.

Women are conditioned from birth to want the fairytale. All the princess crap is everywhere and every princess needs her prince to be happy.
I have a friend who tolerates the shittiest behaviour from a man because she lurves him and she’d rather have him than be alone.

Well, 'you' fell for his BS first so why get angry that someone else does 🤷‍♀️
General 'you' of course though no way there isn't an OW in your past/present

And if the kids 'are hugely traumatised' it's because both parents can't put them first in the whole shitshow. And it's sometimes Mum who is so 'shook to her core' that she allows the venom (very very low value, poor quality etc) to seep into every ounce of her 'blindsided' life. What do you think THAT does to the children?
I think it must be easier to be 'blindsided' than admit you chose a dud tbh. You get past having to acknowledge that by ensuring all the focus is on the OW and how awful SHE is. Yawn
You'd think anyone with a 'modicum of intelligence' would avoid such a rat but someone didn't for him to be a cheater.

A great post. Sums up the dynamic perfectly

And where did I say they can't? Did I blame every man, or did I respond to the OP's thread where she is talking about men cheating and women being too thick to see past it?

No, I've not. Your later responses attempt to back pedal but you clearly still think you're much mightier than any other woman who has been the OW. Your OP starts by blaming all women who have being the OW because clearly, according to you, are top stupid and fall for their lies. You then, after lots of rightful backlash, say you actually mean the women who are willing accomplice. But if you'd have actually meant that, you wouldn't have multiple posts about how stupid they are for believing their lies. So no, I haven't missed the point of this thread. You've clearly got something going on in your home life and it's making you feel better by hurting others.

The question is, in essence: "Why do people have sex/relationships with people who, for whatever reason, they shouldn't?"

Yes. And the answer is that there are as many reasons as there are people. Also, that this is pretty widespread behaviour, and the extent to which it features in novels, film, TV, opera, almost all forms of popular entertainment, suggests that, along with crime, it exerts a general cultural fascination with breaking the rules.

Men and women both have affairs. Some statistics suggest women have slightly more affairs than men when they are younger. It turns out people like having sex with people they are attracted to. They don’t necessarily want to marry them and have babies so it doesn’t matter if they are not husband/father if the year. Women who have children with these men may just be more interested in having children and not so bothered about what the man is like. Maybe they are cynical and don’t have much faith in men generally?

They do all have something in common, though. Selfishness and disregard for anyone else's feelings but their own.

Yes. Let's stone them to death.

Oh hang on that still happens.

That happens, but it is very rare, I would say the minority of cases. Most cheaters are repeat offenders, plus you don't know that there is no cheating in the relationships you cite. They could just have got a lot better at hiding it.

I think some of them are very competitive with the wife and want to believe his flattery/seduction. And, to be fair, I think a lot of those men really do believe what they are saying, in their enthusiasm/fog/midlife crisis.

Not saying that all their marriages are perfect, but even if there are problems, the decent thing to do is to work on your marriage, or just live with the problems, or even split if need be, but not cheat.

One man I know from work had an OW for years, and must have been happy with the status quo, until OW issued an ultimatum. She comes to work events as lady of the manor now, so happy to be "chosen", and I simply can't respect her, especially knowing what his first wife and children went through....

And he still comes on to the women at work every chance he gets. I guess she created a vacancy.

You think calling someone poor quality is a horrible attitude but shagging someone who is married is normal?!

Bloody hell. That's some fucked up moral compass right there.

Some OW do fall for the lies, others go in eyes open. People are different.

If there's one thing I've learned through life though it's stray a surprising number of people have affairs who have previously expressed how appalled they are by affairs, judge others for having them and swear they'd never do it. It's made me realise that opportunity and coinciding sexual attraction have a lot more influence over these things than a lot of us like to think. You also need the self awareness and maturity to realise when your ego is enjoying being around someone and start careful monitoring and maybe even putting distance between you at that early stage. Some people are shits and actively look for affairs; most fall into them because they didn't recognise the danger signs and stop then.

Men and women are just as capable of having affairs. Traditionally men have had more opportunities as women often had children in tow etc, but that's not the case so much now.

Right!? I can't believe some of the responses here. When I was cheated on, I blamed both parties, because she knew my ex was with me (not married, but still in a serious relationship) I would myself never ever either cheat or help anyone else to do so. I think that it is scummy, despicable behaviour. I once pulled the plug on a new relationship because I was suspicious that he was not single.

I think there's no difference between men and women with affairs. Some of them actively want a married affair partner as its safer for them because the boundaries are always there to whatever degree. Some are fed a story of being in a loveless relationship, only there for the kids etc. Some have low self esteem and are flattered by a married person seemingly preferring them to their spouse. Some just like the thrill. Some genuinely and wholeheartedly fall for them. Some don't know.

It isn't a black and white world, and nor is it likely to be a black and white scenario. But what I really disagree with from the tone of your voice is the scorn towards the other woman, given the man is the one who is married and thus has an obligation not to have affairs. Likewise when the roles are reversed.

I know, when I was single I was so wary on dating app as I know heaps of the over 30s on them are married. I’d have been horrified if I even accidentally dated a married man.

I think the onus is mainly on the married person but if you’re part of the affair it’s not a great look for you either. It’s also a slippery slope, it may start with lowering your morals to accepting your role as the OW or OM when you don’t know the persons spouse. However from what I’ve witnessed once someone’s morals has dipped to that level, it becomes more likely they’ll slip even further and venture in the murky realm of getting involved with their married friend or the partner of their friend.

In my 20s I did a big springclean of my social circle after a string of drama and heartbreak in one friendship group, the last incident being when one friend (who unsurprisingly is used to sleep with married men) ended up sleeping with my other friends boyfriend which put me in a tricky situation and caused absolute chaos.

At the same time I got rid of my male friends who were serial cheats or abusive.

To me they’re all indicators of a selfish character lacking in empathy. I decided those aren’t the sort of men & women I wanted to have in my inner circle and my life is so much better for it.

I was the OW. He never bad mouthed his wife or lied to me. I knew what was going on. We didn't physically see each other very often but we had frequent contact via phone and Internet. He eventually divorced and we have been happy together for the last 10 years. There are no trust issues, we are very open with each other. Why did we do it? We were in love. It isn't anything to to be proud of and it would have been better to have divorced first, but that is not how it worked out. We were in our 30's so not young and naive when it started.

Yes they do

This!
I can’t actually believe I’m reading some of these disgusting comments. Have I somehow travelled back in time to the 50s?
50% of marriages end in divorce. In the majority of cases the catalyst is one spouse at least having their head turned. Very few people just leave a marriage without somewhere to go to. Human behaviour is complex and you cannot make such a simplistic assumption about everyone who falls into that category. I really hope I don’t know anyone who has such awful misogynistic views in real life!
DP has a friend who was married for years and was clearly very unhappy. They clearly didn’t get on and he stayed until the DC were adults. He did have an affair but only after making a massive effort to improve the situation, going to relate etc.They were living separate lives for the last few years, barely communicated and he had counselling to cope with the guilt he was feeling. We advised him to leave as the situation was toxic. When he left, he was honest about the affair and paid every bill until the house was sold. The ex immediately tried to turn everyone against him despite admitting that she was also deeply unhappy in the marriage. She cut off anyone who refused to shun her ex. She is a complete narcissist who has turned the DC against him, posts embarrassing bitter passive aggressive posts about him online including outright lies. This is still happening 5 years later. We’ve all seen a huge improvement in his mental health and happiness since he got out of the situation. Despite the ex W’s behaviour, he never says a bad word about her. I know which one I think is the better person…