To think that ow genuinely fall for the lies their men spin?

[aimans]

Men who have affairs, leave or are kicked out, destroy their children's mental health, speak awfully about their wives/exes , ignore/ let down their kids regularly especially when an offer of sex/ drink etc comes up?
The majority of us know that these men are shit in every way but do you really think that their OW's believe their bullshit or underneath it all, are cut from the same cloth?

Yes they believe it. They believe they are better than the wife or long term partner, ex or whatever.

A man only has to appeal to a woman's narcissistic element to make her feel special. She will be happy because he tells her she is special and different. He can give her absolute crumbs but that appeal technique will work very well so long as she is "special" and the other woman is less.

Seen it over and over again. Not necessarily low esteem, more like her esteem is bound up with a man and pleasing him.

Christ, have I fallen into the 17th century?

Yes it's this. Very common

Why do we never use the same terminology for men who wreck marriages? I guess because they tend to fuck off after a few years leaving the mess and accountability behind them.

I think it's largely because we find it easier to accept that men have ignoble sexual urges than women. I've seen a zillion threads on here like this one, effectively asking why anyone would be an OW; people really can't understand it and so all the explanations are variations of "she's evil, stupid and faulty, the kind of person who set fire to insects as a kid". I don't think I have ever seen anyone ask why a married man would have an affair. If they have, it's definitely been a fraction of the number of times people have been totally mystified at why a woman would have sex that she shouldn't, even when she's not actually committed.

And it's easier to paint the OW as pure evil who "made him divorce" than accept that you made a crap choice of man. Especially if you don't want to give him up.

It's not that I dismiss girl code.

It's more that I think we owe that morality to anyone - male or female.
I don't owe another female a favour of not sleeping with 'her' man because we both have breasts. But I do owe another human the grace to be kind, respectful...

And yes, to the women hating comment - I took your comment wrong, I'm sorry. I can see we def agree on that point!

The unfaithful men are spinning lies to one woman so of course they probably are to the other woman.

You will believe anything when you are infatuated with someone.

Men and women.

You believe anything they say, even if you know it’s bullshit because you want it to be true.

Been there on both sides, seen it countless times, on both sides. People are generally idiots where “romance” (well, really wanting to shag someone) is concerned and will believe anything, turn a blind eye to anything in that situation, especially the beginning stages.

My ex husband left me for his secretary. I didn’t blame her. I felt sorry for her. He told her all the usual, that we led separate lives, has separate bedrooms, hadn’t had sex in years. Oh and that I was mental.

I was very calm about it. She contacted me as he claimed I was so mental he couldn’t possibly contact me for his cr that was in his name (he couldn’t take it, it was a car my dad had bought me, he lied to her again), I told her I knew he would have spun her all the above things and that actually, I was under the impression we had a normal marriage until he left, we were in the same bed etc.

Yup, she said he was right, I was delusional 🤣 There’s no helping some people. I wasn’t even angry, if he wanted to leave, so be it. That was out of my control.

I think humans can often believe a lot of things if they really want to, things they would obviously see as lies and bullshit from the outside!

Isn't that human nature to a degree, not specifically being the OW or OM but I think we hide things from ourselves or chose to overlook issues all the time

An acquaintance of mine at work had two affairs with ones that were married and then another one who had a partner and ended up with someone who has been divorced because of affairs.
The thing is, they would be quick to be sanctimonious about other people having affairs ( own dad did and they ostracized him) but for them it was ' different' of course.
Nobodies perfect though , but some are ' do as I say and not as I do ' lol

It's called triangulation and is very manipulative so really, you can't say you don't know. You do! It's a game run by the cheater. They have control over it but you need to play it.

You don't actually have to...

Psychobabble

Usually it’s the case IMO that they want to believe them.

A friend of mine carried on believing that he was going to leave his wife after Christmas/after the summer holidays/once the kids had done their GCSEs, etc. etc. - for 20 years.
And then he died. Still married.

Bah, it's pretty well established when you have three parties that one person will control the interactions when sex is involved. Look it up

It's always so one-sided on Mumsnet.

Evil manipulative man. Gullible other woman with low self-esteem.

Sure that's probably right in some cases, but it's not nearly as cut and dry as that. Women ALSO spin a tale and lie and cheat. Some women know that they're not hearing the truth but some women are also okay with being the other woman.

So men can't have low self esteem or no self respect?

An affair isn't a one size fits all thing, there's so many different factors at play you can't possibly put everyone in the same category.

Of course, women do it too.

A friend of mine had an affair and used the same cliches (no sex life, separate lives), and the man believed her. He would have agreed the sky was green if she’d told him that, he was infatuated with her.

That's what I am saying - but on MN, it's always the same, silly OW sucking up all the man's lies. It's rarely the case. But it's easier and more comforting for people to think that.

That's basically it.

Some people have affairs because they're shit people, some are vulnerable, some are married to the wrong person. They're just not all the same.

Never underestimate people's capacity to believe what they want to believe - they fancy the other person and will self delude in order to justify sleeping with a married man.

Lots of ow just don't care. It may even be a benefit for them if they are also married and just want the sex. Some people are inherently selfish.

I think there are a few who are genuinely deceived.

I see now why you've started this thread, it's to round up all the vitriolic comments that you can, in one handy thread.

I have no respect for women who do that either.

What possible relationship is there between knowingly engaging in a relationship with someone who is married and being opposed to termination? Or being a virgin before marriage? Or being 'dedicated to your offspring' -- are you saying no one is 'dedicated to their offspring' any more?

And I can assure you that anti-abortion types still exist, though I'd be far from impressed by the 'morals' of those who feel women should be forced to continue with pregnancies they don't want.

It depends- there's a difference between a woman who meets a guy at a bar or online, they date, get to know each other a bit, but he fails to mention the little inconvenient fact that he's married. There are a lot of men like this (with some variations (the marriage is over, we just live together because we can't afford to sell/the children/etc - it's an open marriage that I've failed to discuss with my wife or let her know it's open for me.) It can be devastating to discover you are the OW when you had no idea, especially if you've started to fall in love.

It's a different situation setting after someone she knows to be married but she wants the challenge of seducing him, or the money and lifestyle.

And there will be people who meet at work or somewhere, get on very well, make an effort not to start anything but realise they're in love.

Some will have low self esteem, feel it's no threat to the marriage, but he's the only person who has looked at her, all she deserves. Knowing it's wrong just confirms she's the terrible person she already believes herself to be.

Or she's in a bad marriage, feels she can't leave because of the children, money, (hasn't discovered MN,) whatever - and an affair gives a glimmer of light to her days, she feels wanted and desired if only for a few minutes.

Most people who are aware the affair partner is marriage will probably tell themselves all sorts of reasons to justify it and many will feel guilt. Of course they know they shouldn't do it, but they'll find reasons to justify it to themselves and they'll feel guilt.

I imagine the men lie to them, just as they lied to their partners.

I can only say , as someone whose ltr broke up because of an affair, the effects on me were devastating. The aftermath was the worst period of my life . I have had massive trust issues subsequently.