To think this is a vote winner (though not election clincher) from Sunak?

[Lion400]

Thought this was an impressive and clear response to the question, from Rishi. I suppose Labour will likely win by a landslide, because many people don’t care enough about women’s rights. Because I do care very much about women’s rights, I may vote Conservative for the first time ever (cue outrage for Lion). Will I regret it? Possibly. But I’d regret voting for Labour (aka women’s rights removers), even more.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

Some (not exhaustive) examples:
You do know how many Tory MPs have been charged with sexual assaults of one sort or another?
Exploit by denying services - for instance making it 8m possible to get decent care for the young/old/disabled so someone (a woman in an overwhelming percentage of cases) ends up doing it for free.
I’m beginning to think you don’t actually know anything about the Tories at all. Or that you are being paid to be blind about them.

Sunak is unlikely to win the election. Badenoch looks like the candidate to replace him. She is hardly socking it to the patriarchy, and I suspect she is quietly anti abortion.

As so many pp have said, most voters are more concerned with other issues.

Women ARE vulnerable people!

Or that you are being paid to be blind about them

To be fair, I think what is blinding OP is her obsession with trans women. She doesn't understand that most of us are not obsessed.

There is nothing to suggest that at all. OP is clearly concerned with women's rights. Maybe you aren't?

It's not about trans women per se. It's about WOMENS RIGHTS.

Can we keep reposting this excellent comment, until the Tory HQ fools go and play somewhere else?

If you're a woman, disabled, poor, ill, parenting alone, a victim of crime, in a minority, in need, let's be clear: the Tory party don't give a shit whether you live, thrive, struggle or die. These 'sooooo concerned about SIR SIR SIR Keir's stance on whatisawoman' posts are dire and truly underline the contempt that Tories have for you.

Tory HQ? We see you. Now fuck off.

Of course I am. But I don't think trans women are my enemy. Predatory men are. The party that is happy to make vulnerable people suffer is. The party that has wrecked the NHS is. A PM who doesn't give a shit about people with mental health problems is. The party that has allowed sexual assault and rape to become practically legal is.

I could go on and on.

TW are as likely to be predatory as other males. So you are talking in riddles. Labour are one of the parties who are happy to let vulnerable people (women) suffer.

Of course I am. But I don't think trans women are my enemy. Predatory men are.

"Predatory men" are all types of men.

Can you tell me, with evidence, what rights Labour is planning to remove from me. They have already said they will preserve single sex spaces.

Yep. Some predatory men try to hijack the increasing acceptance of trans women. That is the fault of predatory men, not trans women.

YABU for posting a link from GB news to support your argument. Frankly, if that’s where you choose to get your news from, I already know we will disagree

Good lord, how ridiculous and small minded! Maybe OP gets her news from a variety of sources? Is even the fact that she dared to watch a Q&A with the PM on a 'bad' channel enough for her views to be ignored?

If it's such a non-issue, if Labour really do understand the reality of what it is to be a woman, why on earth don't they take the wind out of the Tories' sails and say unequivocally that

• Female people (the group formerly known as "women") do exist and for physical and cultural reasons face political, personal, economic and social challenges that are wholly or in part specific to their sex

• They need single sex supports to mitigate this

• Far from it being an act of hate to state this, or to request or provide single sex support, it is an act of hate to deny it, or to refuse to provide single sex support where mixed sex (including single gender identity mixed sex) disadvantages one sex over the other, or to lobby for the removal of single sex supports.

Just as PPs point out that it's a bit rich to believe the Tories would do something about the trans attack on women's rights and our political existence when they've had 15 years in power to do so and have not, it's a bit rich to believe Labour will not throw women's single sex supports under a bus when they have opportunities every day to unequivocally state support for women as a sex class and do not, nor do they condemn their members and supporters who abuse and threaten those who do speak up for women.

The fact that Labour will not do this speaks volumes to me. I do not understand why PPs are so sure that Labour will protect single sex support when they very noticeably actively choose again and again to avoid making any such statement.

If it was the other way round, if Labour had come out in support of women (original meaning)'s rights and told trans women sometimes they will just have to lose out, would the same PPs be exhorting TRAs to stop obsessing about this single issue that hardly affects anyone in practice and look at the bigger picture? Or is it just women who don't get a seat at the table until everyone else has had their fill?

Either they fully believe that men and women have different risk profiles and life outcomes because they just have different types of mind and that is how is it is, which is bad, or they do not truly believe TWAW but will pretend they do and sacrifice women for political power, which is worse. Because if they are prepared to sacrifice one group of people, not just say "sorry, I hear you but I don't agree with your priorities/analysis" but literally ignore reality and deny those directly affected the right to even speak about it if it goes against what they (Labour) consider the greater good, they will do it again, and again, and again.

Yep. Some predatory men try to hijack the increasing acceptance of trans women. That is the fault of predatory men, not trans women.

If you accept self ID, any male who claims a female identity is a "trans woman". That's the point. I don't subscribe to gender identity ideology, so I don't see any difference. They're all just males.

Males (transwomen) who enter our spaces, bar us from female-only rape services and health services, and take our sports spots - medals, prize money and scholarships, ARE the enemy! They are predatory men. As soon as they enter womens spaces, they are predatory men. You just don't get it. They are men.

Just as PPs point out that it's a bit rich to believe the Tories would do something about the trans attack on women's rights and our political existence when they've had 15 years in power to do so and have not, it's a bit rich to believe Labour will not throw women's single sex supports under a bus when they have opportunities every day to unequivocally state support for women as a sex class and do not, nor do they condemn their members and supporters who abuse and threaten those who do speak up for women.

The fact that Labour will not do this speaks volumes to me. I do not understand why PPs are so sure that Labour will protect single sex support when they very noticeably actively choose again and again to avoid making any such statement.

This.

I'll give it another share.

Maybe mumsnet can make a section for bots and they can all play with each other 🤖

They don't mean sex. They mean sex plus GRA. aka mixed sex.

If you want to win others over to your way of thinking, you might want to be a little less patronising.

It is pointless arguing. Trans people are not going to cease existing, however much you think they should.

Evidence please.

I don't have any confidence that Labour won't throw women's single sex spaces under the bus, but what's the difference. For all their rhetoric, the Tories have been doing this anyway.

I don't trust any of the parties to protect women's rights and safeguard single sex spaces, so I will be voting on the basis of other issues.

Are you serious? This has been stated before. But no harm reiterating it for those with confirmation bias. Maybe another time will help.

‘So the current legal position which the Labour Party does not intend to change states that single sex provisions for women are for WOMEN and MEN WITH A GRC THAT STATE THAT THEY ARE LEGAL WOMEN.

So single sex spaces are in fact mixed sex.

Add to that that no provider can require a copy of a GRC (with very limited exceptions) and hey presto - you have self ID through the back door.

Edited to clarify that the term biological woman has no basis in law. the words do not even appear in the Equality Act’.

Saying that transwomen are predatory men is pretty much the definition of transphobia.

Some will be, just as some men will be.

It is not a defining condition however.