To think this is a vote winner (though not election clincher) from Sunak?

[Lion400]

Thought this was an impressive and clear response to the question, from Rishi. I suppose Labour will likely win by a landslide, because many people don’t care enough about women’s rights. Because I do care very much about women’s rights, I may vote Conservative for the first time ever (cue outrage for Lion). Will I regret it? Possibly. But I’d regret voting for Labour (aka women’s rights removers), even more.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

Imagine the pressure a woman would be under if they did not actually want the transwoman in their loos? In that situation where one or a few or even most women decide that the 'lovely' transwoman can use their single sex facilities and that's that.

Any woman who does not agree risks being labelled at best, mean and cruel to the transwoman and, at worst, a hateful bigot for merely wanting to maintain her privacy and dignity. HR might get involved. So she keeps quiet and posters like the one above get to brag about how inclusive and lovely they are and how no-one is bothered at their workplace that their facilities are now mixed sex.

Except it's not true because that woman has been silenced.

It's absolutely disgusting.

Unfortunately, I don't have to imagine. It's the exact situation that I'm in.

This issue is not about 'the loveliest person you've ever met'. It's about ANY man. All they have to do is declare they're a woman to a sympathetic doctor and hey presto - they have a right to women's spaces.

Equally, this is not about a select group of women who know the man in question. It is about ANY woman. Rape victims, domestic violence victims, orthodox religious women. Now having to accept ANY man in their space. Regardless of the problems that poses for them.

Unfortunately, I don't have to imagine. It's the exact situation that I'm in

It's outrageous and I am so sorry.

Just been back through the last few pages as this thread has been fast moving!

Interesting that Adam has accused me of being engaged in a 'conspiracy theory' , against whom?

I must remind readers that Adam has not been able to explain how the current laws as set out by the EquA, the GRA and the Haldane judgement actually work to protect single sex spaces despite me asking several times.

AdamRyan · Today 12:54

EasternStandard · Today 12:40

The back and forth of posts are a lot but @lifeturnsonadime knows the legal reality and makes sense of something that is not easy
As a key source, she is using a report that in turn is quoting another source. It is not definitive and therefore she is expressing her opinion and not a fact. Then claiming it is a fact and that people questioning it are libellous.

It is clearly a conspiracy theory at this point. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I really need to take exception to this. When it came to questioning whether a poster was potentially being libellous that poster had called a legal note from a barrister's chambers information from a 'dubious source'. That is potentially a libellous statement. I wasn't accusing anyone of libelling me.

I also take exception of being accused of my interpretation of the laws being deemed a 'conspiracy theory'.

That's unhinged.

All I am trying to do is point out that the law is inadequate to protect women's single sex spaces and that ALL political parties should be put to task to fix it.

I have asked @AdamRyan to provide evidence of how my assessment of the current legal position is wrong, she cannot or will not do so.

All she can do is try to cast doubt on my analysis by flinging wild and unfounded accusations.

I have no idea why Adam Ryan wants to silence this debate in this way. She has already said that she doesn't think this is a significant issue, so perhaps that is it.

I realise I am dragging something up here. But if people are accusing me of engaging in conspiracies ffs. I really should have the right to defend that ridiculous allegation.

So you want women who are uncomfortable to defer to the women who aren't uncomfortable with having a male in a single sex space, but yet you are sure that no one in your workplace has had this "imposed" on them?
I'd have no issue sitting at the desk next to the nice transwoman you worked with; but I don't want to sit in a toilet cubicle next to them and that is my right, without being shamed for it.

You have no idea whether that really was the case or whether people were too bullied by the male supremacists to be honest. It's also nothing to do with whether you like someone or not. I like my colleagues who are men but I don't want to share loos with them.

It is becoming clear that the fiercest defenders of Labour's position on this thread agree with the Labour Party that women should 'be kind' to males, no matter if this results in harm to women.

That seems to be the real motive for shutting down this debate. At least 4 posters who have called women who have asked questions about this Tory bots etc, have actually confirmed that they either don't think the risk is significant enough or that they are happy with the laws as they stand or in the most recent post have confirmed that they don't think that trans women are men.

'Exactly. But you want women who don’t feel like you and feel uncomfortable about your attitude to trans women - it’s never men - to defer to you.'

This mirrors the Labour Party position on this.

This is the real reason they don't want women to point out Labour's inconsistencies. They agree with the Labour Party on this.

And I accept that bolded quote from a PP is open to interpretation before I'm accused of misrepresenting something but bear in mind that that poster has said that they will be happy with the laws as they stand and if they mean that we only question women, and never men about this, well that's ridiculous.
We are attempting to question Starmer on this. And he is a man.

This is the real reason they don't want women to point out Labour's inconsistencies. They agreewith the Labour Party on this.

And to think it’s only taken you 33 pages of posts to realise that. I should have thought it was obvious at the start of the thread.

And you’ve totally missed the point. Your objections are only to trans women not trans men, apparently.

Oh good , so we now have honesty.

Some Labour Voters don't care about vulnerable women being harmed by the Labour Party's position on women's rights to single sex spaces.

You always had honesty. You just couldn’t see it because you’re so entrenched in your belief that you didn’t even consider that someone else doesn’t share it.

Make your mind up Blossoms, less than 10 pages ago when I suggested this you accused me of 'making shit up'.

If you were a woman who did not have a gender and in order to accept that TW is a woman (which is what using she pronouns for a male is) you have to accept that you, therefore, can't be a woman, because you have nothing in common with TW, and this means that you're not going to get the protections afforded to women even though you've been sexually assaulted multiple time, you would feel that the TW demands are bullying. Telling me I'm not a woman is harr speech Izimbra. Keeping males out of spaces they're not entitled to be in is not speech whether they've got a gender or not. if that makes a TW life unbearable then they need help and should be given it. It's not a reason to erode my boundaries. That sort of 'logic' is the same that incels used.

I will treat trans people exactly as I want to be treated. I would not ask for access to a space devoted to an oppressed group of which I'm not a part. I have compassion for all. you're showing no compassion at all for women.

No I didn't.

There was nothing I have said about you that isn't true.

A bit of editing right there.

And you’ve totally missed the point. Your objections are only to trans women not trans men, apparently.Edited.

That's not what your original post said. You've changed it.

But I'll respond anyway. Women's rights are not impacted by trans men because they are female.

Sorry to hear this. Many do care

At least the male supremacists are being honest about their disregard for women's needs now. It makes it easier to get on with ignoring their small minded bigotry.

@Totallymessed , I echo what Eastern Standard and Dogfisher say, there are women who care.

Don't be disheartened by some posters on this thread.

The odds for tomorrow's by elections don't seen to indicate that Sunak's words on Monday = a vote winner.

A poll earlier showed a shift

Might be a blip though and / or Labour mess

Savanta poll

Glad there’s been some deletions

The aggression is annoying

Wow. Just wow. Unreal.