To think this is a vote winner (though not election clincher) from Sunak?

[Lion400]

Thought this was an impressive and clear response to the question, from Rishi. I suppose Labour will likely win by a landslide, because many people don’t care enough about women’s rights. Because I do care very much about women’s rights, I may vote Conservative for the first time ever (cue outrage for Lion). Will I regret it? Possibly. But I’d regret voting for Labour (aka women’s rights removers), even more.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

It was refreshing to hear Rishi's words but words are words, there has been a need for more action so, on balance, those words wouldn't be enough for me to vote Conservative. Especially if the P.O.W. has a candidate I can vote for.

Im a member of the womens equality party, but seeing how they're unlikely to field a candidate in my area, i'll be voting labour

YuleDragon the WEP are a complete embarrassment and think that men can be women. They also voted to support gender self id! They are really shocking tbh.

https://twitter.com/MForstater/status/1596608382319968256

Of course there should be protection feom real hate speech but correctly sexed pronouns, saying males shouldn't be in women's spaces and saying TW are not women are not hate speech in fact, any objections to those statements are misogyny. The issue is a crime which is dressed up as about stopping transphobia but which actually is really about antiwoman propaganda.

"Of course there should be protection feom real hate speech but correctly sexed pronouns, saying males shouldn't be in women's spaces and saying TW are not women are not hate speech"

If you were a trans woman and people in your workplace deliberately refused to refer to you by your preferred pronouns or female name, and felt the need to remind you that you were born male, and policed your use of toilets to make sure you didn't use a female single sex space, it would likely drive you into depression/unemployment and possibly suicide. Because it would feel - and would be - bullying. Posters here might not feel it's hate speech, but it would be experienced as such by those on the receiving end, for whom its purpose would be clear - to invalidate their sense of themselves. It would make a trans person's life unbearable, which I suspect is what many people on this thread would like: for trans women to be bullied, shamed and badgered into non-existence.

I'm wondering - the people on this thread who would refuse to treat trans friends, colleagues, children, relatives, as they would want to be treated, on a point of principle, because it's more important to them to be factually 'correct' about sex and gender than to be accepting or compassionate - is this the case? Is this how you would behave towards trans people if you worked or studied alongside a trans person?

One would hope that the TW at work would have the common decency not to try to use facilities meant for women or request a third space from the employer.

@izimbra I don't remind my TW colleagues that they are male, but I also don't use female pronouns for them.
Similarly, I don't go around telling my Christian or Muslim colleagues that god doesn't exist. But if they wanted me to pray with them or talk about their god I'd refuse, and that wouldn't be hate speech either, no matter how depressed it might make them.

Izimbra, So if I told a trans woman at work that the women's toilets were not the appropriate place for them (or asked a manager to do so) I would be responsible for contributing to their suicide?
What if using a toilet next to a male bodied person affected my own mental well being, would that be irrelevant?
I'm copying this part of your post out as I think it's important to read what you're actually insinuating about women on here:
It would make a trans person's life unbearable, which I suspect is what many people on this thread would like: for trans women to be bullied, shamed and badgered into non-existence

It doesn't matter how it makes the woman feel. We're just support humans. We're not as important as the trans woman.

This theme is the same throughout. If we were as important as the trans woman then politicians would ensure that the right to single sex spaces was enshrined in the Equality Act.

How many trans women colleagues do you have? I’ve only ever worked with one in a career spanning over 40 years. No way would I have upset one of the nicest people I’ve ever met by suggesting she should use any loo apart from the Ladies. Nor would any of my colleagues.

Blossomtoes if someone was the "nicest person" you'd ever met, they should have known not to impose themselves in a women's single sex toilet space and put other women in that awkward position.

@BIossomtoes
There are 3 TW at work (only 1 of whom I work with closely) plus a couple of women who ID as non binary. It's not a huge company - under 200 employees. As far as I know using my colleague's first name instead of she/her has never upset him.

Blossomtoes if someone was the "nicest person" you'd ever met, they should have known not to impose themselves in a women's single sex toilet space and put other women in that awkward position

Exactly this. Good men do not do this.

Nobody was in an awkward position or imposed on. She was entirely welcome to use our loo.

Not everyone will feel the same

And I’ve noticed with some pronouns even with pro use of GRCs sometimes it’s a use of he over she on here depending on the presentation I assume

Or other factors

Not everyone will feel the same

Exactly. But you want women who don’t feel like you and feel uncomfortable about your attitude to trans women - it’s never men - to defer to you.

Bloody hell so now you get reported for calling a TRA a TRA! Ah well...

Someone certainly seems to be very busy reporting posts they don't like.

I’ve been clear I’m interested in a vote

Clarity on positions and a vote on it. I’m happy with that.

If people vote for gender over sex well I’ll keep talking with others but at least we’ve had a say.

You don't know that though. All you know is that you didn't mind and that no-one* else said* they minded. It happens where I work and I am extremely unhappy about it, but I don't feel able to say so.

So you'd rather upset women. A more oppressed and voiceless group than males. And you're proud of that? Seems utterly shameful to me.

Nobody was upset. We all liked her.

Okay, so it worked fine in your specific case. What do you think should happen if women aren't happy, or if the transwoman isn't one of the nicest people you have ever met?

Policy isn’t created on one person at an mner’s workplace

The pp is ok with males in single sex spaces not everyone will be