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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is a vote winner (though not election clincher) from Sunak?

1000 replies

Lion400 · 12/02/2024 22:36

Thought this was an impressive and clear response to the question, from Rishi. I suppose Labour will likely win by a landslide, because many people don’t care enough about women’s rights. Because I do care very much about women’s rights, I may vote Conservative for the first time ever (cue outrage for Lion). Will I regret it? Possibly. But I’d regret voting for Labour (aka women’s rights removers), even more.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

OP posts:
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37
Dogfisher · 13/02/2024 17:22

lifeturnsonadime
Tweet below:

I’m 100% a biological woman and female. The fact the GC movement can’t handle this simple fact isn’t my problem. Jealous.

Who will challenge India when they want to go in to the Ladies I wonder?

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 17:22

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2024 17:19

The Tories don't even ask for a GRC in order to put men in single sex spaces. Are you saying that Labour are going to demand such a certificate?

What do the other parties say?

They can't because for most single sex spaces the Equality Act prohibits it.

And therein lies the problem.

The fact that single sex space providers can't ask for the certificate AND those with one can use them by virtue of the fact that they have the PC of both sex and gender reassignment means we have Self ID by stealth.

So why aren't Labour looking to change this after seeing the harms done to women?

They could if they wanted to protect women's single sex spaces.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 17:23

Dogfisher · 13/02/2024 17:22

lifeturnsonadime
Tweet below:

I’m 100% a biological woman and female. The fact the GC movement can’t handle this simple fact isn’t my problem. Jealous.

Who will challenge India when they want to go in to the Ladies I wonder?

Edited

Legally India is right.

The Equality Act needs to be amended but Labour has said they won't do that.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 13/02/2024 17:23

Who will take India on when they want to get in to the Ladies I wonder?
"Take her on"
FFS.
Not me as I don't have a problem with her being in the women's when I am.

BIossomtoes · 13/02/2024 17:24

TheKeatingFive · 13/02/2024 16:53

I've linked to what they have released so far, but here it is again.

What that states is ...

It will be easier than it is currently, for a man to get a GRC (one doctor can sign off on it).

That will then change his legal sex on official documents.

There is absolutely nothing there to suggest that single sex spaces will be protected for biological women.

What do you think this means then? It couldn’t be much clearer.

Put simply, this means that there will always be places where it is reasonable for biological women only to have access. Labour will defend those spaces, providing legal clarity for the providers of single-sex services.”

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 17:24

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 13/02/2024 17:23

Who will take India on when they want to get in to the Ladies I wonder?
"Take her on"
FFS.
Not me as I don't have a problem with her being in the women's when I am.

So you are fine with a male being in the women's toilets, that's great.

But what about religious minority women and sexual abuse survivors?

Why don't they matter to you?

Why is India more important than them?

Dogfisher · 13/02/2024 17:25

I think India is pretty nasty at times, but I am not sure what Labour are supposed to doabout her? Has she done something illegal?

IClaudine this was posted in regard to them entering women's single sex spaces supposedly reserved for biological women.

TheKeatingFive · 13/02/2024 17:28

What do you think this means then? It couldn’t be much clearer.

It couldn't be less clear. They haven't made any attempt to define those spaces. What are they talking about?

Also on what legal grounds could they keep men with a GRC out?

Dogfisher · 13/02/2024 17:28

"Take her on"
FFS
Not me as I don't have a problem with her being in the women's when I am

Edited to say challenge which is what I meant and I do not want it to be misconstrued.
Also - you do not get to speak for other women.

OneTC · 13/02/2024 17:29

Dogfisher · 13/02/2024 17:25

I think India is pretty nasty at times, but I am not sure what Labour are supposed to doabout her? Has she done something illegal?

IClaudine this was posted in regard to them entering women's single sex spaces supposedly reserved for biological women.

Edited

What they've been doing for a while under the current lot?

EasternStandard · 13/02/2024 17:30

TheKeatingFive · 13/02/2024 17:28

What do you think this means then? It couldn’t be much clearer.

It couldn't be less clear. They haven't made any attempt to define those spaces. What are they talking about?

Also on what legal grounds could they keep men with a GRC out?

This exactly

Can anyone answer?

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2024 17:30

AdamRyan · 13/02/2024 16:58

Exactly. It's orwellian.

Yep. It's 2+2=5 if the government says so.😱 Terrifying for our rights and democracy.

We need to get rid of this dangerous Tory government before they do any more damage.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 13/02/2024 17:32

We need to get rid of this dangerous Tory government before they do any more damage
Couldn't agree more!

BIossomtoes · 13/02/2024 17:32

TheKeatingFive · 13/02/2024 17:28

What do you think this means then? It couldn’t be much clearer.

It couldn't be less clear. They haven't made any attempt to define those spaces. What are they talking about?

Also on what legal grounds could they keep men with a GRC out?

Of course it’s clear. It’s a fuck sight clearer than anything the Tories have said - or, more to the point, done. You just choose not to believe them. At least be honest and stop gaslighting.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 13/02/2024 17:34

Also - you do not get to speak for other women
I don't, I speak for me - as women we're all individuals.
Likewise, you don't get to speak for all women as well.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 17:35

BIossomtoes · 13/02/2024 17:32

Of course it’s clear. It’s a fuck sight clearer than anything the Tories have said - or, more to the point, done. You just choose not to believe them. At least be honest and stop gaslighting.

No it isn't. Badenoch has been clear on the need for amendments to the Equality Act to protect women's single sex spaces following the Haldane judgement.

It is false to say the current Equality Act goes far enough when it doesn't.

TheKeatingFive · 13/02/2024 17:37

Of course it’s clear. It’s a fuck sight clearer than anything the Tories have said - or, more to the point, done. You just choose not to believe them. At least be honest and stop gaslighting.

can you answer the questions I posed then?

What spaces? How legally would they keep men with a GRC out?

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 17:37

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 13/02/2024 17:34

Also - you do not get to speak for other women
I don't, I speak for me - as women we're all individuals.
Likewise, you don't get to speak for all women as well.

So you're not bothered that religious minority women and sexual assault survivors have been self excluding?

You're not bothered that girls have been avoiding drinking at school or going to school when on their periods?

Thank fuck some of us, the ones accused on these threads of being Tory bots no less, care about ALL women and don't think that the wishes of some males should come before the needs of those women and girls.

Dogfisher · 13/02/2024 17:39

Thank fuck some of us, the ones accused on these threads of being Tory bots no less, care about ALL women and don't think that the wishes of some males should come before the needs of those women and girls

THIS.

BIossomtoes · 13/02/2024 17:42

Thank fuck some of us, the ones accused on these threads of being Tory bots no less, care about ALL women

But you don’t. You don’t care about women living in poverty who can’t get their teeth fixed or feed their kids or who live in mouldy temporary accommodation. You don’t care about women whose rapists aren’t being convicted. You care about women who agree with you. That’s not ALL women.

EasternStandard · 13/02/2024 17:45

TheKeatingFive · 13/02/2024 17:37

Of course it’s clear. It’s a fuck sight clearer than anything the Tories have said - or, more to the point, done. You just choose not to believe them. At least be honest and stop gaslighting.

can you answer the questions I posed then?

What spaces? How legally would they keep men with a GRC out?

Those who say Labour are clear could you answer this

What spaces? How legally would they keep men with a GRC out?

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 17:46

BIossomtoes · 13/02/2024 17:42

Thank fuck some of us, the ones accused on these threads of being Tory bots no less, care about ALL women

But you don’t. You don’t care about women living in poverty who can’t get their teeth fixed or feed their kids or who live in mouldy temporary accommodation. You don’t care about women whose rapists aren’t being convicted. You care about women who agree with you. That’s not ALL women.

I CAN CARE ABOUT MORE THAN ONE THING AT ONCE.

I want Labour to help with all of those things AND ensure women's rights.

it's really NOT too much to ask, is it?

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/02/2024 17:48

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NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 13/02/2024 17:49

You care about women who agree with you. That’s not ALL women

Yay, someone said it.
Exactly

lifeturnsonadime · 13/02/2024 17:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

But what part of this aren't you getting?

We are not all Tory bots.

Most of us are really want to vote Labour, want Labour to win the election and want Labour to commit to make the necessary amendments to the Equality Act to protect women.

Labour could really do this you know. Women's single sex spaces shouldn't be the price to pay for a Labour government. We need women to be angry with Labour about this to change things. Sitting back and saying 'well the Tories will be worse', is mind blowing to me. Women fought for the right to vote. We should fight for the right to be recognised as a sex class. We should be lobbying Labour Candidates and letting them know we won't accept this continued erosion of our rights.

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