To think this is a vote winner (though not election clincher) from Sunak?

[Lion400]

Thought this was an impressive and clear response to the question, from Rishi. I suppose Labour will likely win by a landslide, because many people don’t care enough about women’s rights. Because I do care very much about women’s rights, I may vote Conservative for the first time ever (cue outrage for Lion). Will I regret it? Possibly. But I’d regret voting for Labour (aka women’s rights removers), even more.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1757143443111841900

Meanwhile the Conservatives are attempting to legislate that Rwanda is a safe country, despite accepting asylum seekers from Rwanda.

They're not really legislating on it. They're declaring that the truth is whatever they say it is and trying to make that law. If they succeed, they and any future UK government can make any old shit as truth and force the law to recognise /uphold it.

Scary times.😱

I will absolutely be doing this.

And I can say genuinely, nothing would make me happier than to see Labour provide proper clarification on this issue in their manifesto. All we want to know is exactly what their policy means without any waffly caveats, and what their definition of a woman includes. This is an important issue to many, and it's not unreasonable to want explicit clarify in this policy.

In fairness, this is all many of us have been asking for, and what's been lacking.

I will of course hold every political party to this same standard. I'm thoroughly sick of word salads that don't say anything.

Hardly likely when the electorate realise what Starmer really stands for on this.

But look what they did to Rosie Duffield for saying this. Then tell me they're not full of shit.

this is all many of us have been asking for

And this is the trouble with you. Might be an idea to remove yourselves from this endless echo chamber and see that there are many other things people are literally begging for, not just this.

Exactly. It's orwellian.

I'm the poster who said 'younger women don't care'. I couldn't be further from a TRA - but it just so happens to be the truth in the young women I know. Because, you know, I speak to them about this issue and listen to what they are saying. I offer my point of view and they respect it but see things differently. You don't progress your argument by suggesting everyone has an agenda just because they don't agree with you.

Anyone who looks at the damage done to the UK over the last 14 years and the dire state of public services and thinks I'll vote for more of that is really not thinking big picture. Yes the trans issue needs unpicking but never in a million years would that be the main issue I would consider when voting.

Starmer knows that the Equality Act as currently drafted does NOT protect women's single sex spaces.

He knows this because he is a lawyer. He knows that legal women (males with GRC) cannot be excluded because they have the protected characteristic of Sex (female) because their birth certificate says so and gender reassignment because they are trans.

This could easily be fixed with an amendment to the Equality Act yet he fails to promise that.

When it becomes clear after the election that he never did intend to remove trans women from women's single sex spaces, never let it be said that you were not warned.

That's why I'm always happy to help any "single issue voters" on these threads.

You have a choice between SDP, Reform UK and Party of Women. The Tories are not the answer, they're an unreliable busted flush.😬

Yet my teen son and all his friends think that trans is a load of navel gazing nonsense and that women's single sex spaces should be protected.

My son was particularly perturbed when he was using the urinal at college and a teenage trans boy (female) walked behind him. Boys want single sex spaces too.

Sex based rights are a privileged belief

Focusing on toilets/ changing rooms

I was told off for not focusing on such issues! Make you bloody minds up.

The problem is there's that word again "reasonable". Labour say "Put simply, this means that there will always be places where it is reasonable for biological women only to have access."

We need to understand what they would consider "reasonable" to require a single sex space.

For example, many trans women believe that it's reasonable for them to use a women's public bathroom.

Many trans women believe it's reasonable for them to compete in women's sport, including contact sports.

Many trans women believe it's reasonable for them to be placed in women's prisons or on women's hospital wards.

The trans identifying head of a rape crisis centre in Scotland thought it was reasonable for women that had been raped to have a male-bodied rape counsellor.

The views on reasonableness are so diverse now we need clarity about what Labour mean when they say "reasonable". We need explicit examples of how this would be implemented and what a reasonable need would be.

It's good to see Labour acknowledging there is a need for separate spaces based on biological sex, but we need to know how they view this in practical terms. Unfortunately we've all learnt now not to make assumptions based on what seems "reasonable".

Yes it’s all there

Admittedly Starmer likes to waffle and obfuscate on the questions so it’s picking through a load of word salad without a lawyer’s fee for the time

But that is intentional

I think you are confused Iclaudine, sex based rights are not a privileged belief. They affect vulnerable women more.

And no one is asking anyone to focus solely on toilets and changing rooms at all. Diminishing the argument to those is deliberately done to make the issue seem trivial. It isn't.

‘Ms Duffield recently claimed leader Sir Keir Starmer and the party had ostracised her for her stance on trans rights, likening being in the Labour party “to an abusive relationship” and has been branded transphobic for supporting online criticism of a tweet saying “only women have a cervix” – she also claims it has been years since she and the party leader have spoken.
She said: “We last spoke in September 2021, just before our conference, amid a big controversy about me liking a tweet again.”’

This tells us a lot about Starmer and the Labour Party. Years since they’ve spoken? The famous silent treatment, loved by coercive controllers everywhere.

There’s a thread like this every 3 days or less

Of course they can't openly talk about these things at college because they'd be branded bigots.

They are constantly told that they have to be kind to trans people in form time and any 'bigotry' could result in removal from college.

Poor kids are forced to go along with ideology that harms them.

I know. Tory canvassers are getting desperate.

Good might raise awareness of the ongoing attack on women's rights and that all sides of the political spectrum need to do more to protect women from harm.

To be clear: I don't think sex based rights are a privileged belief - that was a typo. I accidentally cut and pasted it from the post I was quoting together with line I meant to cut and paste. Too late to edit!

No doubt I will be accused again of being a MRA for my error.

And no one is asking anyone to focus solely on toilets and changing rooms at all. Diminishing the argument to those is deliberately done to make the issue seem trivial. It isn't.

Yes, someone did actually say the focus of this thread was single sex spaces.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5006679-to-think-this-is-a-vote-winner-though-not-election-clincher-from-sunak?reply=132996946&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

So for those posters who are so sure that Labour will keep single sex spaces for biological women - what do you think that they will do about this individual?

https://twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1559530487680569344?lang=en

Oh I can't see India's posts because they blocked me.

But is this where India declares that India is a biological female, on the basis that India has a birth certificate that says India is female and they are biological because they are human?

The Tories don't even ask for a GRC in order to put men in single sex spaces. Are you saying that Labour are going to demand such a certificate?

What do the other parties say?

I think India is pretty nasty at times, but I am not sure what Labour are supposed to do about her? Has she done something illegal?