Does the UK begrudge success?

[Viohh]

Just interested in having a conversation really.

My parents were children of Indian (Sikh) immigrants who worked in factories then eventually owned shops. My own parents themselves forgave holidays, nice clothes etc to send their kids to private schools (also corner shop owners). As a family of 5 we lived in a 2 bed flat until I was 16. We did go to private school. I remember the envy I felt of classmates’ houses when we went on play dates. I always went to after school club. Often the last to be picked up.

Fast forward, I’m now a consultant at a big 4 firm. One brother is a pilot and the other is a doctor. Many assume I come from privilege and only the super rich can send children to private schools. The way I was raised has left a lot of psychological damage which current society almost dismisses.

Just wondering if anyone has gone through similar hardships which now is retrospectively being dressed up as ‘privilege’ in modern society.

Not much resentment in places like Singapore either.

Well no as we are returning to Victorian levels of inequality so understanding the patterns of wealth in the UK is very relevant. Equally, sorry but 1/3 of Land that's it, you e read it correctly 1/3 of UK land is owned by the Landed gentry, The worth of a hereditary title has nearly doubled since the 2007 financial crisis, now standing at more than £16m. I would say there is a distinct relevance if you are discussing the distribution of wealth and the rise of inequality.

Apart from congrats to your well earning self and siblings, what else you want to hear. Sorry, darling, how much you suffered at the hands of your parents who gave you , your education.

That is a shameful , disrespectful bragging.

What era re you referencing as I think you'll find the demise of the working classes, middle classes is also causing people to question how the gap between the haves and have nots has grown exponentially and like the UK and the U.S, it will be even worse on the current trajectory.

I notice that some people get very het up by the idea of privilege and really dislike acknowledging they have it. Many people who have experienced all the bad things you describe but didn't get to go to private school and have wealthy parents. Surely you are aware that you therefore have a privilege that they don't?

When we talk about privilege in the U.K., people are normally specifically referring to financial privilege unless other context is given.

OP, you unquestionably grew up with financial privilege. That is what people are referring to when they call you privileged.

You can be privileged and also a victim of abuse. I'd gently suggest that the lack of nuance you describe is actually coming from you; you seem to believe that in order to be labelled privilege, you can't have experienced anything bad. That's not the case, and it's not what other people are assuming when they describe your privilege. They are specifically talking about your financial circumstances.

I'm very sorry you had a hard childhood, and I hope you feel you're in a better place now x

People don't begrudge success. Its the inequality, injustice and their own predicament.

And maybe OP should just hang out with other privately educated people

I think people don’t realise how big an event the banking collapse and subsequent bailout of 2008 was. It is surprisingly little discussed today, despite the fact that it completely changed how capitalism worked. I kind of suspect that so many of the wealthy and powerful benefited from it that they are not interested in revisiting it.

The reality is that capitalism works by boom and bust. When people overextend, they then suffer the consequences, assets deflate and a new generation has opportunities to become rich.

What should have happened in 2008 was a genuine depression, with the bankers out of work (not just out of a bonus for a year or two) and a collapse in property prices of 50% plus along with a similar fall in equity prices. This would have allowed teachers, local solicitors etc to get on the housing ladder and, in the subsequent recovery, build wealth.

However, what happened is that bankers kept their jobs, equities had a v shaped recovery and the same families who were wealthy stayed wealthy. And taxes rose for the middle classes on 40k per annum to bail out bankers on 200k per annum plus, who continued to frequent the same expensive restaurants and send their children to the same schools.

And then we had QE which continued to prop up assets and ultimately led to inflation , which always harms the worst off the most.

This isn’t how capitalism is meant to work. It was a deliberate policy decision to bail out the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

I think you can trace a lot of ‘resentment’ from this point onwards,

How ironic you talk of stupid people and soundbites then trot out a load of crap about Covid furlough having to be "paid back" and being the cause of inflation.

We aren't paying for Covid "free money" - the nation's finances aren't like a credit card however much the Tories like to pretend it for the feeble minded.

We are paying for years of consistent Conservative policy of wealth redistribution away from the poor to the rich.

Having lived in Copenhagen I think there would be a lot less resentment if most people could buy or rent somewhere decent to live at sensible money and not necessarily be house sharing in their 30s and upwards( unless by choice) - if your quality of health wasn't determined by either your postcode or whether or not you could afford private and if people stopped implying that they had the levels of lifestyle they have purely by hard work- it definitely is in some cases- but in others it's through luck of having family that have wealth and could help out , very good education or just 'a great break' somewhere along the line and if we had affordable high quality childcare for all from 6 months onwards. In Denmark most couples both work and not a bit of part time either, because that option is there- however it takes a different mindset and at the moment the system here is such that it often doesn't pay for couples with under 5s to both work but then struggle very much on 1 income or 1 income plus a bit of part time secondary income. So we end up with 1 working and then because of the sheer cost of mortgages or private rent in many parts of the country-- getting add on benefits or even worse being just over the limits and getting sod all- I think it's causing some poor short term choices- but understandable ones. - and masses of resentment comes in - understandably

And, as we seem to be discussing the cost of furlough, the furlough scheme was (at most) 7% the cost of the 2008 bank bailout.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18446461.fact-check-will-furlough-scheme-cost-2008-bank-bailout/

If you don’t understand basic economics and then impact of borrowing and quantitative easing on inflation, that’s your problem.

On the contrary, it's very much yours - take a look at some of the other posts for help on how wrong you are about this issue.

The cost of the bank bailout in 2008 in the UK was less than £140bn and most of this has already been recouped (still more to come via RBS listing). A enormous sum of money but a fraction of the cost of furlough / covid.

@Alcyoneus ,

The vast majority of QE and borrowing was caused by the 2008 banking crisis, not COVID.

As I linked to above, the COVID furlough scheme cost about 7% of the bank bailout.

I think you are definitely biased in your ‘understanding’ of economics.

Yes resentment over the success of others is a negative trait of British culture. It’s crabs in a barrel mentality, dragging people down.

If you come from average circumstances and start doing a bit ‘too’ well, there will be people who’ll make it their mission to pull you back down to your ‘place. This is why the country struggles with innovation and productivity.

Sounds like there was only one facet of OP's life that was financially priviliged though (the private education).

That doesn't mean the rest of her childhood was financially priviliged. OP says they grew up in a cramped flat, for instance.

@Teddleshon ,

That 140 billion is a very charitable estimate. It assumes because the UK governments explicit and implicit guarantee of both banks’ equities and, more importantly, debt, wasn’t drawn upon, it was ‘free’.

In addition, it takes no account of the inflation pumped into the system via QE.

agree with this.

as another poster stated, I’m sure the OP @Viohh would rather have grown up with loving parents who didn’t drag her across the floor by her hair and her Mum so stressed she banged her own head on the wall than being made to feel oh so grateful for the sacrifices her parents chose to make for a private education. There is so much more to a happy, successful life than attending a private school. Not being traumatized by your own parents abuse for one. I personally don’t call that ‘privileged’.

Me.

I was born in a council house in NW England; my parents were teenagers when my older brother was born. Both left school at fourteen and worked in factories, etc. Manual labor.

I was academically very strong, if not gifted, and it was made very clear to me from an early age that education was my "out". We couldn't afford private school but my state school was across town and the "posh" one; solidly middle class. I was aware of our relative lack of money/standing.

I didn't want a life like that so I worked by arse off to get a good degree and onto a Big Four graduate scheme. I've since gone into industry, graduated from a US law school and I'm one of the mythical "Mumsnet High Earners"

I've earned every single penny of that and yes, sometimes I cringe at the notion that I'm privileged. To me, privilege is by definition "unearned". My current standard has been earned through hours upon hours (upon hours) of hard work. Prepping for exams after a 10-hour work day; putting a newborn down and then finishing a 15-page brief.

Recently I took my kids on a "nostalgia" tour and they were shocked, shall we say, to see how humble my beginnings were. Now these kids are privileged! They have not earned anything 😄 but me - nope. Years of burning the midnight oil.

@Newbutoldfather The scale of QE in response to COVID dwarves that in response to the bank bailout. There is no financial cost of a government guarantee unless it is triggered.

Yes, of course, that is absolutely the reason this country struggles with productivity because the British are so resentful of success. Did the British put that resentment on hold, park that cultural affliction, post second world war when Britain's economy grew as a result of manufacturing, coincidentally when wealth inequality was at it's lowest? Interesting how we moved to a Finance based economy 1980's onwards, Wealth inequality to date is the worst it has ever been and people are a bit perturbed by this, asking questions as to whether the wealthy could just be a little less wealthy and the rest of us could get a fairer cut of the cake but of course it is all down to the British crabbiness!🙄

You tend to get well I work hard too but am on minimum wage, as if the self investment, sacrifice, skill level and responsibility of a retail worker is the same as a doctor therefore how dare doctors want to be paid more

Yes, people on minimum wage work hard too. And many of them are also highly qualified individuals who, for whatever reason, are not able to work on ‘better’ jobs due to personal circumstance or just never having got a break.

But mainly what people on higher wages seem to ignore is just how essential lower paid workers are to an overall team - you need minimum wage cleaners in hospitals, as well as admin assistants and nursing assistants just as much as you need the surgeons. We all deserve respect, wherever we are in the hierarchy and that is sadly lacking in our society as a whole.

Does the UK begrudge success?
Yes. It seems to be a race to the bottom when comparing to someone who has done well for themselves.

Hats of to you! What I want to know is who is making you take on the label of being 'privileged'? 🤯

So wealth is not income, what about the assets you have acquired that have increasing value without you doing anything?

I have a very close family member who has achieved the same as you in the same job, they always say how 'lucky' they are despite all the hours studying. My DH and I studied very hard, long long hours to become an Architect in his case, he is a Director in a London practice but we happen to be early to mid 40s, we have been helped with our tiny house as no other way to obtain one. All our friends are the same, we are the lucky ones, we are privileged, it is mythical nonsense to take about success in this way.