Does the UK begrudge success?

[Viohh]

Just interested in having a conversation really.

My parents were children of Indian (Sikh) immigrants who worked in factories then eventually owned shops. My own parents themselves forgave holidays, nice clothes etc to send their kids to private schools (also corner shop owners). As a family of 5 we lived in a 2 bed flat until I was 16. We did go to private school. I remember the envy I felt of classmates’ houses when we went on play dates. I always went to after school club. Often the last to be picked up.

Fast forward, I’m now a consultant at a big 4 firm. One brother is a pilot and the other is a doctor. Many assume I come from privilege and only the super rich can send children to private schools. The way I was raised has left a lot of psychological damage which current society almost dismisses.

Just wondering if anyone has gone through similar hardships which now is retrospectively being dressed up as ‘privilege’ in modern society.

@Viohh have you had therapy? I think that will be very useful for you.

We live in a nanny state in UK. Most don't appreciate the privilege of the opportunities available and make excuses for their position in life (if they are struggling). So it is better for them to say that you achieved your success as you are privileged.

Also OP, most people from Western cultures won't appreciate the extremes of the sacrifices made by your parents. It would be a bizarre concept. This is not a criticism of Western cultures but I feel there is more of an emphasis on children's happiness and people are proud of their kids just because rather than because they are doing well at school or have a particular characteristic etc

OP, I had a similar experience to you. My family were poor growing up, my mother worked in a factory and my dad was a labourer. The stars aligned when I was due to go to secondary school and they got a small inheritance, and I earned a large bursary with top test results, so I went to private school. I appreciate it so much now, but at the time it was hard, being the poor kid with second hand uniform that doesn't fit, had never done my homework because the home situation was so stressful - I also experienced dv and what I realise years later was neglect.

I think I see privilege differently now after learning about intersectionality, that you can be privileged in one way but not in others. You might have gone to private school, but also experienced racial bias and discrimination, or for others, you might have grown up poor but be white, straight, and faced less discrimination.

I don't know why people would be judging you now for your privilege, my own experience is different because I don't talk about my personal life at work - the good or the bad, and I decide very carefully what I am comfortable sharing with friends, building trust and sharing my past gradually.

My brother was not as lucky as me, my parents could only afford to send one of us to private school and even though it wasn't my choice, I still carry the guilt for that. Our lives have been very different, I went to uni and have a good job now, he doesn't. I have a very clear and always present reminder of the privilege I experienced.

We had bailiffs at the door actually. Parents hated doing the food shop as they knew they couldn’t fill up a trolley.

Paying bills was akin to playing chess. The sense of doom was all consuming

@chopc I agree- I think there is a great deal of 'your kids need to be successful' to help you out in southern Asian culture. Not saying that's right or wrong but hard for us westerners to get their head around

I agree- I think there is a great deal of 'your kids need to be successful' to help you out in southern Asian culture. Not saying that's right or wrong but hard for us westerners to get their head around

Zero welfare to fall back on in home countries. Kids' success is parents' retirement plan.

@JazbayGrapes yep- I suspect that is indeed the situation - but those who are here in the UK keep that mentality too - I think it's deep in the culture.

What?? So the 50's, 60's is understood to be the Golden age of economic growth in Britain, increase in real terms GDP per person. Living conditions improved, wealth inequality declined and job security was relatively high. Are you British? I am and anecdotally my parents, young people of the 1960s along with my DH's, all of friends and peers Boomer parents never had it so good, all afforded a university education that was never an option for their parents, fighting off opportunities for employment of a high calibre following completion of this education, high levels of disposable income, my parents at 21 had a honeymoon in 1966 in Jamaica for example! They moved to London and bought a detached house in South West London when they were 26! It is a similar story with my friends parents and colleagues parents who are that age! To date, what are the markers of the resounding successes of your Thatcherite, neo liberal politics?

Had we been the sick man of Europe we would not have been asked to join the EEC. In 1973, when we entered, our annual national growth rate in real terms was a record 7.4% so the economic basket case argument doesn’t work.

You should have added, "in my opinion", this is not how the Economy works because your notion of infinite resources is a fallacy hence why the pie does need to be cut more equally!

Are you on glue? The fifties were not a growth decade for the UK.

And as for the EEC, or the EC as it was then, they didn't ask us to join - we asked, and they refused us, twice. On the third attempt we got in.

"on glue" what an intellectual insight

But on your point, how by the middle of the 1950s were they not? What's your argument other than the "on glue" comment(like most wealthy people who want to covet their wealth, i strongly suspect you haven't one)? strong productivity growth was reflected in real-terms household disposable income by 1959 this was 22% greater than it was in 1950. Even the Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, captured the spirit of the age when he said "Some of our people have never had it so good".

Please, please enlighten me as to why this is a complete fallacy, an unlived mythical fairy tale told by our parents(one of whom in my case was an Economist in that era) make us feel better about the dire economic predicament of the British working/middle classes in 2024, oh hang on?🙄

I see you ignore my point about the UK not being invited to t join the "EEC", as you called it...

Anyway, over the decade of the 1950s, GDP rose 4.5%, and unemployment rose 2.8%.

The Uk has had a chequered history of relations with what is now the EU, since it was founded in 1956/7 by Jean Monnet. De Gaulle, who was sheltered in the UK as the leader of Free France during the war and treated as a head of state, decided to freeze out the UK and refused UK applications repeatedly. Instead we joined EFTA and the European Coal and Steel trades consortium (I can't remember the acronym).

This has always seemed to me to be something of an Anglo-French grudge match. The French are determined to lead Europe into a glorious future, With Germany, if they have to. But never with the English. On a personal level, we gel. But politically, we vie for supremacy. The French are at the centre of European politics, the UK isn't, but the UK has very decent statistics, even post Brexit, and a much larger field to play on. Countries want to join the Commonwealth; Mozambique has no British colonialist past, for example, but asked to join voluntarily.