Does the UK begrudge success?

[Viohh]

Just interested in having a conversation really.

My parents were children of Indian (Sikh) immigrants who worked in factories then eventually owned shops. My own parents themselves forgave holidays, nice clothes etc to send their kids to private schools (also corner shop owners). As a family of 5 we lived in a 2 bed flat until I was 16. We did go to private school. I remember the envy I felt of classmates’ houses when we went on play dates. I always went to after school club. Often the last to be picked up.

Fast forward, I’m now a consultant at a big 4 firm. One brother is a pilot and the other is a doctor. Many assume I come from privilege and only the super rich can send children to private schools. The way I was raised has left a lot of psychological damage which current society almost dismisses.

Just wondering if anyone has gone through similar hardships which now is retrospectively being dressed up as ‘privilege’ in modern society.

OP
Completely agree with you. I just have to keep my mouth shut.

I'm a first generation immigrant. My parents are doctors back home but live in a flat, never had a car. We often had water cutoff; had all food rationed and stuff like meat mostly unavailable (lived in a communist dictatorship).

Came here, did the equivalent of A levels in one year, got a scholarship to a low level private university. Started working in financial services and got through my professional exams.
Currently earn a non investment bank financial services salary, and me and my then husband (from similarly not privileged background) bought our house and two more, rented out.

I try to say as little as possible to people and noone knows about the rentals.

People are incredibly jealous although comparatively they mostly had a much more privileged upbringing, just didn't end up making the same choices of working and saving afterwards. (As an example, I have misformed ribs due to childhood malnutrition - it was one of the 'worse' communist countries....)

I do think there is a subset of UK society that likes to see people cut down to size, especially if they think - rightly or wrongly - that their position is unearned/not deserved etc.

But I think a big driver of that is the vast inequality in this country. Companies are allowed to pay below-subsistence wages that are subsidised by the government in the form of benefits, while the bosses of those companies earn vast sums. There is huge regional inequality that affects everything from education to job prospects to health and social care. Add a national dialogue that is less cakeist and more pie-ist (ie there is a finite amount of pie to go around, rather than recognising that the size of the pie can change and be differently distributed) and you get a society where people inevitably fight over the scraps of pie left for them and question why someone else has a bit more pie.

It’s so odd to come terms with. I was overwhelmed by love always felt secure.

But my dad had a short fuse. My siblings and I were punched, hit with shoes/coat hangers etc. Even spat at I’m afraid to say. Arguments went on for hours.

But my dad is so mild mannered now. The way he is with his grandchildren and even his dog. Wont even raise his voice to them now the stress is gone.

I resent the idea I grew up privileged.

Just wondering if anyone has gone through similar hardships which now is retrospectively being dressed up as ‘privilege’ in modern society.

I think you may have fundamentally misunderstood the concept of societal privilege. You can be privileged to have gone to a private, fee paying school giving you the opportunity to pursue a well paid career while simultaneously having been not privileged or underprivileged in other aspects.

Would you have your career if your parents hard work had not secured your private school fees? Or would you be working in their corner shop today?

Having hard working parents that love you and make sacrifices for your future is a privilege as well if you think on it. Many children don’t get that kind of support from their parents.

That said, crowded modest housing versus your classmates spacious rich housing is an example where you were less privileged than they were. As is your ethnicity an example of underprivilege as presumably you are at least mixed race.

Why do you care though, if someone else considers you to have a privileged background? Perhaps compared to them, you did? Maybe they had the abusive upbringing + their parents didn't spend any money or time on them? I don't think this thread is going to be useful for you. Personally I can't see how you can say you were raised with love and security but were spat at. I think you'd benefit from some therapy.

Name changed for this. My Dad was a police officer, Mum did nights in a factory. DH’s Dad died in a traffic accident when he was 6, step father beat him, he was homeless aged 15. Long story short he won a scholarship to a sixth form college (maths & science) and worked his way through university with 3 jobs. Works in finance sector internationally.

We are now worth £12.5 million (in our 50s) and expect that to continue to grow. Our kids went to private school. I was snubbed by some parents at the schools and other parents didn’t care. As far as I am concerned we earned our money, we pay 50% tax on everything we earn. We live quietly. The kids are decent people and not superior or snobbish. I really don’t worry about other people’s assumptions. Yes your forefathers made sacrifices which you have benefited from but you should not feel guilty. Maybe try and help someone else, we support a family member who has poor health and cannot work after cancer years ago. Bought them a house and give them an income. Happy to be in a position to do so.

You and your two siblings were immensely privileged growing up being able to attend private school when so many others can't and just get whatever education is available at the time. Doesn't matter about anything else outside of that in your life which was bad, you can resent the idea that you grew up privileged, but the reality is, you were, suck it up.

I care because it’s not true. My childhood was hell on Earth.

As a parent who made massive sacrifices in terms of housing, holidays, clothes etc to send my two to private school I still realise that they are privileged.

My children always had enough to eat and a warm house. They were clothed even if those clothes were cheap supermarket clothes and I could afford to send them to clubs and classes. They were certainly the poor kids at their school.

For various reasons ds left the private school and went to a local state school and college. There he met friends whose parents could barely afford to pay their rent or have their heating on, were unable to buy new shoes when they grew out of them, couldn't afford to go on school trips or attend a music class and who without their free school meal would not have eaten properly that day.

@Dweetfidilove how can you pay half school
fees whilst also earning so little as to claim UC? The usual UC position is it's hardly enough to live on. Can't be savings as you wouldn't be eligible for UC.

These two reasons alone are enough for therapy. Number 1, why do you care what people say? You're selectively reading and responding though, so I'm not sure what you want out of this thread. Given that you're still in contact with your parents, I can see why people are making the assumption your childhood wasn't how you describe.

I agree the school was a privilege for the OP but just to note that it's quite possible that the OP wasn't from a wealthy family with the other privileges we associate with private schools today - her privilege might be in one aspect only and paid for in other aspects

Private school fees rather like house prices have increased disproportionately over the last few decades - if you were paying at 1980s rates you would pay per year what people are paying per term now. An ordinary family ( on say 2 teachers salary ) then could chose to prioritise education over homes and holidays

We almost all have forms of privilege compared to others - a caring family? A good school? Nice home? Great travel experiences? Good health ? Good friends and family close by? Money ? Good looks ?

The edit button seems to have disappeared.

50% scholarship, 50% bursary.

Having parents who wanted a successful future for me is the privilege. Will never downplay that.

I don't understand how the title of this thread matches your issue?

The current fees at the school ds attended are £16,000 per year.

His friend comes from a single parent family with an income of less than £20,000 per year. Even assuming a 2 parent family with an income of approx £40,000 per year paying £16k of school fees plus the very expensive uniforms etc would be an impossibility especially with more than one child.

Indians don’t go no contact the way people from other cultures do.

I don't think British people resent success, necessarily. If people assume you grew up privileged, it may be because a large proportion of those in similar jobs to yours did grow up privileged. It may also relate to how you come across to them in terms of accent, bearing etc.

It's awful that you were subject to domestic abuse, but this does not necessarily mean you weren't privileged in other ways.

However, going to private school doesn't have to mean you're 'super rich' (whatever some on this thread think). A friend's children attend private school. Both parents are teachers on the main pay scale, earning about £35k-£38k. One of them happens to teach in a private school, which offers staff 50% fee discounts. The full fees are ~£13,000 p.a., so they pay a fraction over £1,000 per month for both children. They afford this by living in a very ordinary 3-bed semi that they spend very little on, driving second hand cars until they break down irreparably, and having cheap holidays (maybe one package holiday a year, whatever they can get as a last minute deal).

Many may consider their annual income to be high. It may seem unattainably high to some. But the median annual full-time income is £34,963 (source: ONS), so while they are lucky to have two full time professional earners in the household, they are certainly not in the 'super rich' or 'exceptionally wealthy' bracket.

No, what people resent is the dramatic shifting of income distribution, the demise of both the working and middle classes due to 40 years of corporate welfare, the tax loopholes and advantages, the removal of trade union powers and the active penalising of them (see new trade union legislation) stock market highs coupled with near-stagnant wages has meant most economic advantage have gone to those at the top. It is not our country alone having a culture of resenting success, that's baloney!

This pattern of wealth inequality is a global problem. People worth less than $10K — 53% of the world’s adult population — hold 1.2% of the world’s assets.
People worth over $1 million — 1.1% of the world’s adult population — hold 46% of the world’s wealth.

Unfortunately, it has dangerous consequences for the world at the moment as the populist politics feeds of this resentment.

Sorry the title is dumb. I guess the title was a stab at trying to explain the root cause of people wanting to portray my upbringing as privileged.

We just want to slap labels in a black and white manner imo.

Just wondering if anyone has gone through similar hardships

Obviously I haven't met every UK citizen that ever lived but I have met people who live in overcrowded flats. I've also met people who went to private school. I have never encountered any single person who has simultaneously lived in overcrowded unsuitable accommodation and attended fully paid for private school. Probably because most people would prioritise providing a suitable living environment for their children over sending them to private school.

So, I imagine your particular situation is unusual.

However, it's probably not that unusual for children at private school to have a neglectful home environment in other ways - neglect can happen regardless of income level.

To my mind, neglect in itself doesn't mean that you and those children didn't have the obvious benefits of a private education and the obvious benefit of being in a family rich enough to be able to buy that education. It also doesn't mean you're "privileged" because as I understand it "privilege" is a particular concept re non-material circumstance that innures a person from a particular worry eg a white person doesn't worry about racial discrimination. That's different from being rich! You're either rich or you're not. (You personally are, btw!)

As for privilege discourse, I think it can be useful to raise awareness of barriers to safety or realising potential or whatnot but I also think it can get very wrapped up in the whole plucky victims Vs powerful baddies narrative that there seems to be lot of in contemporary chatter, with everyone trying to prove their virtue by emphasising their victim status in comparison to everyone else. And this kind of reductive and simplistic point scoring doesn't get us anywhere.

Have you thought about having therapy to help deal with the emotions about your childhood?

Yes I went to private school.

But I also witnessed a breakdown where my mother hit her head against a wall and screamed how she wished she never had children.

Midgetastic is correct. The school fees for ds & dd were total of £18,000 per year. Our family income was approx £40,000 per year but back then housing costs were a lot cheaper. I think we paid something like £200-300 per month housing costs

If we were doing it today our salary would have gone up a bit to £60,000 but the fees would be £32,000 and housing would be around £600-800 per month.

Yes, it's the Tall Poppy Syndrome. "Cutting down" people when they become too successful.

Well I think that's probably the root of your problem. But don't take digs at my culture because you have issues with your own