Does the UK begrudge success?

[Viohh]

Just interested in having a conversation really.

My parents were children of Indian (Sikh) immigrants who worked in factories then eventually owned shops. My own parents themselves forgave holidays, nice clothes etc to send their kids to private schools (also corner shop owners). As a family of 5 we lived in a 2 bed flat until I was 16. We did go to private school. I remember the envy I felt of classmates’ houses when we went on play dates. I always went to after school club. Often the last to be picked up.

Fast forward, I’m now a consultant at a big 4 firm. One brother is a pilot and the other is a doctor. Many assume I come from privilege and only the super rich can send children to private schools. The way I was raised has left a lot of psychological damage which current society almost dismisses.

Just wondering if anyone has gone through similar hardships which now is retrospectively being dressed up as ‘privilege’ in modern society.

Rising tide, not ride..

Indians don’t go no contact the way people from other cultures do.

Maybe not, but it’s your choice about whether to go NC.
You were abused. You witnessed DV.

I sense you would feel guilt and cultural shame for cutting contact with your parents, especially as they sacrificed so much for you and your siblings financially. It seems as they hot housed you to where you are now. It does not mean you should be happy or grateful to have experienced a horrible childhood. I wasn’t grateful about my childhood either.

Bottom line, you need therapy.
NHS waiting times are crazy, so at least you can afford to go private.

Some people think we are rich. I let them think. They see what they see and that’s enough to get some people’s backs up. The change in behaviour and jealous comments once people see where we live is enough for me to decide if a new friend remains a friend.

These people who think you are privileged don’t know about your horrible childhood. It’s none of their business, unless you want to share it with them. You don’t have to. You do not need to care about what they think about your lifestyle.

Well the question was whether there was begrudgery of success in the UK, and in providing a comparator some light was shone on the matter, right?

There is huge inequality in the US so it's a useful comparison. What is it about the unequal UK that makes the success of others feel like a personal insult when success in the unequal US is celebrated?

The problem with the rising tide theory is that metaphorically people we now have too many of the super rich shortening everyone's anchor chains to make sure they sink.

@Snowsp a quick look at a list of the most unequal countries on earth will show you that there is no connection between admiring and encouraging success and inequality.

I’m also Asian, came to this country as a child immigrant with my parents who worked low paid jobs, with my siblings.

I was always conscious that our house wasn’t as nice as my friends’ (who had been born in the UK). I hated birthday parties with some friends as I felt so self conscious. Dad worked 16 hour days to pay the mortgage.

My parents didn’t make a big thing out of education, beyond ensuring we went to school every day.

I have ended up in a highly paid career but it was through luck more than planning and just plodding along through college and uni and jobs.

My colleagues are mainly white, many went to private school. They have no idea of my family life.

I don’t think success is begrudged per se, but I do think financial success in certain (dubious) industries is.

I don’t think people begrudge wealth creators like Richard Branson or Dyson, nor do they begrudge people who earn wealth through a combination of genuine talent and hard work, such as senior doctors, engineers etc.

I do, however, think that people resent people earning massively from jobs like management consultancy, finance, managing corporates having never actually risked their own money. To some extent, these businesses are just a tax on others and the ‘talent’ is mostly imagined.

I think it is particularly resented when people in the above professions go on about how they got where they are through hard work and talent, when the reality is it is more a small sliver of talent and a large helping of luck (often coupled with a side dish of nepotism).

I don’t think that is unique to the UK though.

But this is a myth, a fantasy, - the self made through hard work, grit and determination is not how it happens, it is more a case of prosperous to riches, not rags to riches!

I don’t people begrudge someone who’s achieved something from nothing but I think people don’t like the whole aristocracy owning much of the land handed out yrs ago thing. Or the over representation of private school in certain industries eg media, law etc.

Is that what I said? You're reaching and making a straw man argument here.

But why do you care if people label you as privileged. You know the truth. You've worked hard to get where you are and you've overcome the negative parts of your childhood. Be proud of yourself and other people can piss off, what they think is irrelevant.

Also, the person who said only the super rich can send their children to private school is wrong.

Also, the person who said only the super rich can send their children to private school is wrong.

Maybe not super rich but the costs of fees now and housing plus wage stagnation means that the parents who pay for private school are very different from the ones of my youth.

You have to be pretty wealthy now, there is no question of that.

@Snowsp you said it was embarrassing that I was unable to make the connection between an attitude that admires success and accompanying cultural and social inequality in the USA but there is no such connection.

I suppose I just don’t see the necessity. This is something that op is obviously finding triggering and I just don’t understand why there is this insistence on labelling someone as better or worse off than someone else, particularly when they are obviously hurting, Many people have suffered a traumatic experience of private/boarding school. They may have had a first class education but I wouldn’t say they are privileged and I wonder how they would feel reading this thread.

I lost my dad young and a friend with a single mum said to me that I was lucky because my dad loved me and her loss was much worse as her dad abandoned her. In fairness, as an adult I can see that she was absolutely right. I am the most privileged person I know and was blessed to have two wonderful parents who loved me and wanted the best for me. I still look back and think that there was no need for her to actually say that to someone who was feeling low. I suppose I feel the same way about the op.

It's... in the title? You jumped into a conversation.

@Tiffanyis is spot on IMO, OP has been through a lot but the only person who can change how she feels about that going forward is herself.

OP, does it matter? You've been privileged in some ways and not in others – like lots of people. I was privileged, fee-paying school, grew up in a lovely house. But my family is quite dysfunctional and I found that really hard growing up. It's all very complicated, but the long and short of it is, none of it is easy.

You didn't choose where you went to school, and you are dealt the cards you're dealt. One of my closest friends went to private school but has had adoption trauma and cancer in his lot. A colleague went to one of the most expensive schools in the country but lost his father to a heart attack at a young age. At a certain point in life, it's not a case of having a load to carry or not, it's more which bits will make up your specific mix of burden. Don't add to the load by giving too much headspace to what other people think.

I went to a state school and then oxbridge. I work in a profession though not a lucrative one. I'm absolutely privileged in that sense. I also have experienced abuse, i was a very anxious teenager and I'm now a widow in my 30s. But I was able to use my privilege. I was a nice well spoken middle class woman when I was dealing with police and the medical profession and they were more inclined to trust me. I could ring up uni friends who are barristers and lawyers and call in favours. Privilege doesn't mean happy, it just means doors were opened for your that others cannot reach. I now have a surprisingly degree of financial security but at the cost of watching my husband drink himself to death. it's a privilege to have that money and not everyone in my circumstances. Your pain is valid and I hope you find more peace but you absolutely are privileged in other ways.

Yes it’s getting to a point you have to apologise for having anything you’ve got of your arse and worked for

I cannot believe some of the comments on this thread. Yes, of course it's upsetting for the OP to be told that she had a 'privileged' upbringing when she was an abused child.

To those saying "It can't have been that bad if you're still in touch with your parents" - Jesus Christ. Have a word with yourself.

Some thoughts:

1. Private school is now three times as expensive as it was in the 80s/90s.

2. Yes, many people in the UK (and other countries) like cutting people down to size, but

3. I don't believe that the calling people priviledged thing is a particularly British phenomenon. It seems to me to have originated from the American online left about ten years ("check your privilege" etc). It had its uses but it is also a very blunt instrument. It's very classic online leftism - a word has been taken and the meaning sublty changed, and now the not-so-online are confused. The result is you have a, say, white or middle-class person who had a horrible upbringing being called 'privileged' and they don't really understand why. In some contexts, the word no longer means what it used to mean.

I think the OP is confusing 2 and 3.

I suppose the OP's predicament is similar to how an impoverished white person might feel when being told they have 'white privilege'. Do they have certain protections, in the West, from being white? Yes. Are they, in general, 'privileged'? No. Are they now confused? Possibly.

OP - I'm sorry to hear about your upbringing, it sounds shit. If you haven't had any, then counselling/therapy might be something worth looking into.

(edited for spelling!)

success / high salaries is absolutely resented in this country. Take the cap on bankers bonuses. Investment bank employees pay every penny of PAYE income tax due. When you factor in some employer / employee NICs the majority of any bonus paid is paid to HMRC not the employee, yet people think uncapped bankers bonuses = bad. Think of the lost tax revenue due to the cap. The cap is just there because otherwise some people’s mind would blow with the jealously.

I think many people here will not understand your experiences and the pressures placed on 2nd and 3rd generations of immigrants in many communities by parents and extended family. I have seen it from within my own family and very frequently in my job.

Parents have given up everything, made huge sacrifices for their children and sometimes really struggle to understand why they do not seem to appreciate the opportunities they never had. The children just want to be like their peers, often from the age of 4 they are sent to extra classes on top of school. I regularly deal with referrals for physical chastisement against very young children, who do not want to do an extra hour of homework on top of keystage one every night which has been set by their Saturday schools.

Whilst having empathy with the parents (often the mother is the harshest critic of their daughters), the concept of childhood is usually quite alien and they are frustrated that thr child otes not appreciate the opportunities they are offering. This is from a place of being able to look back as an adult but in reality their early life experinces are so far removed from their child's they struggle to understand their views. There is often then generational trauma to add into the scenario because these families have settled here for a good reason. On top of that they are often in the worst accommodation in the roughest parts of the city.

Little Britain mentality is a real thing. People thinking small and begrudging other people their success. If you look back at history, it must have something to do with the fact that while a select few were out building an empire and bringing back untold riches, those left behind on this small island were happy to live on scarps with the their factory jobs, terraced houses and once a week baths with shared water.

The class system extends beyond just family wealth. There is an intellectual divide too. Between a small minority who are go getters and the crabs in the bucket who would rather keep pulling everyone down than get out there themselves.

You should read the threads where anyone who has more than 30p in savings and has the audacity to come along and ask advice on investing being told how they insensitive they are and how they should read the room. The you get people slated on here for having a cleaner because ‘why can’t you clean yourself?’.

No becuase I come from a similar background and this isnstill very much the norm with my peers to do what you can to ensure your child has the best education for them.

Yes it does.
Many brits will not understand why your parents made the sacrifices they did.

The UK is still a great place to live but it does not welcome success. Look at the tirage against Rishi for paying 500K in tax, he is a success but is criticised for it. The average tax payment from a worker in London - the highest taxed is just over 10K so Rishi is paying the equivalent of 50 average Londoners.