My fiancé has asked me to lie about childrens religion to his parents

[Quickrunner91]

Fiance has asked me to lie about the religion of our future children to his family.

My fiancés family are very religious. We are not particularly religious. When we have children, we’d like to show them all different religions but allow them to make their own choices.

My fiancés family lives abroad, but he’s asked if we go to see them with children we may have in future, that we lie that we’re raising the children a certain religion.

Am I wrong to feel a little annoyed about this? I want things to go smoothly but at the same time I don’t see why I should have to lie about my own children

If he'll lie to them, he'll lie to you.

I was raised Catholic and my DH is Sikh.

The pressure from DH'S parents was immense and the only thing that made it bearable to withstand was DH insisting that our DS wasn't being raised as either religion but could be exposed to both. My mother asked a few times for DS to be baptised (for the schools and for cultural reasons) and I declined. My FIL sat us all n down and asked me to change my name so we could be married in the Gurdwara and we both declined.

We go to weddings, funerals, cousins' christenings, first communions, and paaths with the respective sides of the family when appropriate and our DS knows that there are different beliefs and he can choose when older.

If my DH had asked me to lie to appease his parents I would have ended it. Identity is so important and your hypothetical children deserve to be able to form this without confusion, shame, or lying to those they love. If your DH feels it is more important to appease his parents than to be on the same page as the mother of his children, he needs to marry someone who is happy to live this way.

What I did was imply at the time of marriage that I would go along with the religion but when it came to having real life children we didn't do it. This was with the complicity of my husband - all we were really doing was derring the showdown in the hope that when the grandchildren came along the GPs would mellow a bit, which in fact they did, but not without a bit of a passive aggression. Yes, that was cheating a bit, but it's our lives to do with as we choose - and that's exactly what they did in the first place so hardly unreasonable of us IMO

Surely you can see how ridiculous this all is? He's lying to them already, wants you to lie, and wants a mock religious wedding because he can't face up to his parents. Do you really want to be with someone who lies constantly? It appears to come easy to him for "an easy life". I'd be thinking about that before marriage tbh.

I'd run as fast as I could from this man. I wouldn't marry him and help him appease his parents. I wouldn't want to marry someone from such a strict background, either.

Which religion is he and are his parents from a different culture to you? (Sorry, have just realised you said that. I wouldn't marry someone from such a different background, tbh, and one where it's likely his parents will become very involved in the children's religious upbringing. I don't think they would want him marrying someone like you (or me!) and this would make things very difficult for you.

Please be careful.. I have known women in your situation, westernised boyfriend from a religious family, it changed after the wedding. It was almost like they needed to demonstrate how they were bringing their children up strictly and were more restrictive than friends who had married Muslim women. Pressure to go to their country and children never coming back.

Obviously can't happen to everyone but it happens.

Love is not enough to have a happy marriage. That's a hard lesson to learn, OP, but one you really need to consider before it's too late.

What was that on, please @AelinAshriver ? I love that book.

I've read on other thread that after marriage the pressure will ramp up.

Be very careful. I had a boyfriend who wasn’t religious. We used to talk about marriage etc always said I wouldn’t need to convert and kids wouldn’t be of that religion.
We split up after 5 years together and he met another non religious women. Once married he found God again. They had a religious wedding and she’s been strong armed into living according to that religion.
No kids yet but they will be raised in accordance with that religion. It’s not a happy marriage at all as her wants have been completely disregarded.
Be very, very careful going forward.

This!

Er yea there is as they will have to ask the children to lie, or more realistically teach them enough to pass as being from that religion and damage them hugely with the level of deceit

We didn't bring our kids up catholic but we were very happy for their nana (my MIL) to take them to into a church and light a candle etc. Interesting for them, pleased her, no bother to us. We didn't pretend we were raising them catholic though. She always referred to "your church" to me meaning C of E even though I didn't attend church.

@Quickrunner91 do his family wear head coverings? Are you going to have to spend your life taking two photos of your children to send ones with coverings and then they just wear them full time? Fair enough if they choose to wear them due to personal beliefs not to lie to grandparents!

Islam isn’t a religion where you can pretend a little bit on one day. If you visit with your theoretical future children, they’ll be expected to know basics like the word for god, how to greet in Islam, how to eat, maybe going with family to the mosque or pray, asked what they got for Eid and are they excited for Ramadan.

how is a small child who’s not introduced or bought up with any of that meant to ‘fake’ it?

I wouldn’t marry him, he’s a liar.

You are walking into a nightmare with man who wants to be weak with his parents but controlling with you and your hypothetical children. The whole situation is batshit crazy. My advice to you is to leave this relationship and find yourself someone who a) doesn't lie to people b) would not drag you into this sort of deranged situation

You deserve better than this - it will end in tears

The head covering is a stupid example. Hijab isn’t observed till puberty anyway. And I’d like to see a pissed off teen agree to wear a head covering to send pictures to her grandparents if she doesn’t want to.

no way would this lie be possible to keep up.

If you feel you have to do things to make peace with his parents to keep him happy that to me suggests trouble is being stored up for the future.

As is thinking of a religious ceremony as a 'fake religious wedding' - at the end of the day, plenty of people do have a religious wedding that isn't sincerely about the faith because one of the really wants to and the other doesn't mind, or to honour the heritage of one or both of the couple.

Is the religion thing really all or nothing? One doesn't have to be intensely religious to follow a religion - could going to church/masjid/synagogue a few times a year be enough so they at least have some idea of DH's spiritual/cultural heritage? Which I think is fair enough. My sister's husband isn't Jewish and they don't practice, but nephew joins in wider family Jewish events and knows his heritage.

Or are they going to be expecting head coverings/modest clothes or other physical trappings?

It may not be an issue if you can perhaps have a relationship with the religion where you are keeping the theoretical kids in touch with their father's heritage; it is a problem if you are having to pretend to live a totally different lifestyle in front of his parents.

Is religion important to your fiancé? Or is showing face and acting religious to his family important?

I would really try to understand where he stands on religion himself.

As someone that will bring up all my children under a religion whilst still having very open convos about other religions. It’s important for me to be with someone that will share this or else it has potential to cause conflict in parenting.

Make sure you both stand in the same place first.

You definitely have a fiancé problem here. He has to manage his parents expectations now - I understand this is probably not a battle he wishes to have but they have to understand this is now his, and your life, and in the future your children so your rules.

This is the start of a slippery slope you are better off not going down.

Relationships, as do the new parents, change when children enter the equation.

OP, you may well find that 'pretending' to practice Islam, turns in to your DH actually wanting to raise children according to at least some elements of Islam. Assuming his childhood was good, he will reflect on the positives, including religion, and want to recreate the 'best bits' for his children.

Whilst you may be otherwise on the same page, this is a bigger issue than, 'oh we'll just say the kids are Islamic'.

You need to decide what you are comfortable with and have the conversation with your DH to clarify both your standpoints and boundaries.

'Just go with it' seems like a potential argument waiting to happen with his entire family.
You are talking about lying to his parents about something they feel fundamentally passionate about. Whilst you may not be planning to see them much at the moment, future grandchildren, older age and failing health etc can massively change these best laid plans...

When we lived in a mixed bit of London I frequently saw young girls from the age of four or five wearing hijab — families appeared to be African, but no idea from where. My point is more that different cultures/ethnic groups within those cultures have different norms, so I wouldn’t necessarily assume hijab isn’t an issue till puberty.

Don't go through with a 'mock' religious ceremony. There isn't any such thing.

https://www.drishtijudiciary.com/to-the-point/ttp-muslim-law/classification-of-marriage-under-muslim-law

I disagree. This is how religions get a hold, fear and obligation

He needs to stand up to his parents but as culturally that would be deemed as incredibly disrespectful then I would wonder if he’ll ever stand up to them. There is so much of the duplicitous living. Undercover living where people are hiding their Westernised lifestyles from their parents, but usually when it comes to getting married it stops! In that everyone lays their cards on the table and parents are told this is the way it’ll be.

If he’s asking you to do this it doesn’t stop there. I’ve found my friends have become more religious when they’ve had kids. You might find yourself under pressure to convert. At a minimum if you have a son I expect he’ll want his head shaven at birth and circumcised.