To be annoyed my DM was refused access with pram?

[EmeraldA129]

We have a local cafe we go to fairly regularly. Normally myself, my DM & DD who is 4 months & in a pram. We almost always have lunch, juice, coffee & often cake too.

Sometimes my DM comes to look after DD for a few hours & will almost certainly go to the same cafe, sometimes for a full lunch though sometimes just a cake & coffee.

I’ve given them 5* reviews for being so welcoming & friendly. We like the team, we like the food & there are a number of tables that can have a pram sitting next to them without causing hassle to the cafe or other customers.

on Sunday my DM went with my DD & although there were tables available the man that works there (we think owner/ manager) said ‘no, sorry, it’s fine to come in with that when it’s quiet, not when we are busy’. My DM asked if he was being serious, he said yes & showed the person behind her to a table that was free. Other people were leaving & trying to offer their table to my DM, but the man said no, it wasn’t suitable.

we’ve had lunch there many times before DD was born, but have been in at least 10 times since she was born. Previously I’ve always felt like a valued customer but now it feels like they’ve been willing to let us give them custom when they need the extra takings.

My DM won’t be going back & I really don’t want to either. Also want to leave them a new 1* review to balance out my previously glowing one.

This happened 5 days ago so it is clearly really bothering me that I’m posting about it now.

AIBU to be annoyed?

Ahhh. If the pram needed to be upright then I would imagine it was a risk assessment.

A baby could be put in a sling/carrier/shawl. Most four month old babies wouldn't have been able to sit before prams were commonplace either.

That's really bad service. You're a loyal customer and a frequent one too. They were able to accommodate you(people offered) but chose not to. I definitely would leave a bad review and give the history of being a good customer and leave it to them to respond to that.

Thanks @NotQuiteNorma
I’ve been a happy cafe customer my entire adult life & didn’t have my DD till 4 months ago. I’m 38 so have a good 20 years of cafe visiting without considering it a crèche or any such thing.

babies sleep a fair amount & need fed regularly. I’ve found it can be good to get fresh air by going for a big walk & punctuate it with lunch at a cafe.

I don’t visit cafes any more now than I did pre baby. Also never bored now that my wonderful DD has entered my life.

It’s not really a trend to eat or drink.

The pram hasn’t been an issue before though so it’s likely she didn’t have a sling with her, also not idea to drink coffee while say with a 4 month old in a sling. Before prams were commonplace I doubt there were that many grandmas visiting cafes with babies for coffee and cake either.

Disabled people have no choice ,parents do they can use slings etc
Having a baby us absolutely not the same as being disabled

I would contact them in writing and ask if it’s a new policy to refuse entry to prams as you’re a regular customer and its never been an issue before.

It could be a staff member who has got it wrong and the manager may well be horrified at what happened and apologise, so ask the cafe to clarify first before publicly shaming them.

We’ve been out a fair amount & on lots of busses, this is the first time this has happened!

You're very lucky then! I often had to navigate putting down a pram with a baby, toddler & preschooler in tow.

It sounds like the manager / owner's delivery was off. However, I don't think they were unreasonable not being able to accommodate the pram. She should have put it down / left it outside & held the baby.

I think they could have suggested leaving it outside (bring baby in obviously) if there isn't much space. I can see how it would be a problem in very small cafes, though from the setup you've mentioned there should have been space.

Yes, I guess if she hadn't brought any carrier. It's fine to have a coffee with a baby in a sling though, just move them to the opposite side to the coffee.

A few people have said similar to this, I think I will do that.

Are you really comparing a disabled person with a baby in a pram?

Exactly. It would only be if the carer was disabled and needed the pram, or in the case of a child with a disability that this would be comparable.

Assuming you have a sling that allows you to move the baby to the other side, and that won’t reach out for the coffee cup. And that OPs mum is able to carry a 4 month old in a sling, and that baby would even accept this. It’s not the best option for everyone.

It's a tricky one. I do kind of get it from the cafe owners perspective. He could have suggested you bring baby in but leave the pram outside though....that's what I do with my buggy when going into small shops and cafes.

I think it's fair to say a non folded pram shouldn't take up the space of a paying adult if space is tight. There is a medium sized cafe near me where it was pretty solid with mums and babies and prams, I kind of realised it was that type of place and avoided it during the day. But if it's small there is less leeway. It is legit you won't go back there as they won't meet your needs despite loyal service.

Honestly Prams, can be very impractical I remember having a bulky ,not easy to collapse buggy when Ds1_was a baby it wss a pita,on buses etc I got a cheap stroller when he was one that folded easily and didn't take up much room it was so much easier

I own a cafe, we can accommodate a couple of buggies but sometimes 6 will come at the same time, we have to ask them to leave them outside or in the foyer. I'm obviously very polite when asking, and have never refused service but it is annoying when people come with massive travel systems that make it awkward to move around. Perhaps for round the doors you could consider a lie flat umbrella buggy for ease?

Prams have been around since like 1900 or something though haven’t they?

we’ve been in so many times before. I love my baby carrier, but there’s no way my 78 year old DM could take my Dd out in one - and if she could no way she’d trust herself to eat or drink with my baby attached to her.

I'm not sure it's actually legal to turn someone away from a service or facility because, effectively, they don't fit your idea of the ideal customer. Particularly if H&S or access issues aren't cited as the reason, just 'Too busy for you, madam — but not too busy for you, Mr and Mrs Jones'. You say the manager gave a table to someone else in preference to your DM. Could your DM have reasonably accessed the table and sat there without causing an obstruction? This sounds like discrimination. I have a friend currently using a wheelchair who was refused access to her local cafe because the owner said that it was too inconvenient to shift a table six inches to accommodate her. My friend took advice from the CAB and I believe the cafe was breaking the Goods and Services Act and received a stiff letter. This is the link.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services1/goods-and-services-what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/direct-discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/

I don't know if discriminating against a woman with a baby would be direct discrimination, but it might be worth trying the CAB if you want to make something of this.

He sounds unreasonable unless it was a very small cafe, I wouldn't go back. To be frank a tiny baby can't sit in a chair and an elderly woman can't wear it in a sling, what does he expect.

Since 1900 is a tiny fraction of human history.

I didn't realise your DM was elderly though. An elderly person may have a genuine need for a pram as a parent with a disability might.

Yeah but back in the day mothers left their prams and often their babies outside shops etc
My mum had a huge silver cross pram when me and my sister were babies but she didn't drive and all the shops were a short walk away and she didn't visit cafes ,this was the early 70,s

(Post deleted: just read the DM is 78)