To be annoyed my DM was refused access with pram?

[EmeraldA129]

We have a local cafe we go to fairly regularly. Normally myself, my DM & DD who is 4 months & in a pram. We almost always have lunch, juice, coffee & often cake too.

Sometimes my DM comes to look after DD for a few hours & will almost certainly go to the same cafe, sometimes for a full lunch though sometimes just a cake & coffee.

I’ve given them 5* reviews for being so welcoming & friendly. We like the team, we like the food & there are a number of tables that can have a pram sitting next to them without causing hassle to the cafe or other customers.

on Sunday my DM went with my DD & although there were tables available the man that works there (we think owner/ manager) said ‘no, sorry, it’s fine to come in with that when it’s quiet, not when we are busy’. My DM asked if he was being serious, he said yes & showed the person behind her to a table that was free. Other people were leaving & trying to offer their table to my DM, but the man said no, it wasn’t suitable.

we’ve had lunch there many times before DD was born, but have been in at least 10 times since she was born. Previously I’ve always felt like a valued customer but now it feels like they’ve been willing to let us give them custom when they need the extra takings.

My DM won’t be going back & I really don’t want to either. Also want to leave them a new 1* review to balance out my previously glowing one.

This happened 5 days ago so it is clearly really bothering me that I’m posting about it now.

AIBU to be annoyed?

And I was pointing out the flaw with your answer, as it’s quite clear there could be no where to put the baby down, if you don’t use a sling, or can’t put the big pram down whilst wearing a baby in a sling. And the posters point is also valid as you might not have anywhere to put the folded down pram anyway. I was responding to you…

Well actually, my DM & DD were refused entry… but agree it’s not likely to be illegal.

Typical Mumsnet as well - come on for some advice about the pitfalls of being a new mum (I've got a one year old and have felt really unwelcome in busy places too, despite there being room), and get a load of snarky responses about babies and prams being too big.

The OP didn't "come on for some advice about the pitfalls of being a new Mum" she came on to ask if she was being unreasonable to be annoyed about her Mum not being allowed to take a large pram into a cafe. People have been offering their views on that, as the OP asked

I said “can’t see any issue with a review describing the experience”, not “definitely go nuclear and give it one star” (although maybe OP feels they were rude enough to her mum to warrant it, I don’t know).

If a business point blank doesn’t allow in prams during busy times, that’s useful to know for other people before they turn up. Presumably they won’t be losing any custom from the people put off going by that knowledge because they wouldn’t have served them anyway.

She WAS turned away though

I'm with you. I had a similar experience when one of my kids was a baby. Lovely local cafe, used to go often when on maternity leave. They were super friendly to mums when they went in during the week, even had discounts especially for mums. Then we went in on a weekend and they didn't let us sit on the empty table by the window. They shoved us to the crappy table in the back corner. My pram was tiny and the baby quiet. Never went again. They basically wanted our custom during the working week when they didn't have a lot of customers, but at weekends when they had other alternatives we weren't good enough.
I wouldn't go again if I was you. And zi would leave a review explaining that prams are not welcome. You were a regular customer, you should be treated better.

At a busy period,turned away. You sniffily said it’s all about profit, durr yea
He explained it was busy,please come back when not as busy. That’s reasonable
It’s a cafe selling food and beverages it’s not a community centre drop in. Of course it’s about covers, takings, profit

I’m not being churlish or mean spirited, previous review was great atmosphere, great food, lovely team & very family friendly in accommodating us. Update would be it’s a shame we won’t be able to enjoy the good food & atmosphere as it isnt as family friendly as we thought given that we were refused access with our baby and pram due to being busy even though there appeared to be tables available that could easily accommodate my DM & DD.

Okay yes, people are entitled to their opinions, which OP asked for.

My point still stands - going by the majority of responses, don't bother going out to eat or drink at the weekends if you're a new mum (or elderly grandma who can't wear a sling)! There's no space for you and your baby is a nuisance. Oh and the money you spend on a coffee, panini, chips and cake for yourself is not worth as much as Mr and Mrs Thomas who had two coffees and shared a cake. Because 2 customers will always be worth more than 1...right?

not that one but similar. I’m in Glasgow, not London though, and one reason we like this cafe is that there is adequate space at a number of tables without needing any adjustment to the tables etc.

Yes, you can tell when story time is on because there are usually about 20 prams outside the library. They are not allowed inside the library or there would be no room for people.

Like they are not allowed into the leisure center, or into the primary school, like they aren’t allowed into the theatre or the Christmas fair or any other number of occasions that are sprinkled into life regularly enough that even if you live in a big city, it’s a good idea to have a plan b.

Absolutely agree with the cafe owner. There is no obligation to accommodate prams, they are an H& S hazard.

A local community cafe got around this as it was popular with families with young children. They had the room to put in a pram storage area so they weren't blocking gangways. One or two prams might not make much difference. But if it's busy if they let one with a pram come in. They have to let everyone in. So YABU don't boycott them independent businesses are struggling.

I totally understand that you cannot keep the pram at your table when it is very busy. It would be a hazard for the waiters moving around carrying hot items and would frankly get in the way!
But refusing her entry is not on. They could have found somewhere to store the folded pram and your DM holds the baby on her lap or puts her in a high chair.

What madness is this? So cafes allow dogs in to drool on the floor sniffing for bits of food, getting under people’s feet, but not babies in prams?

Since when had this become the norm?

My youngest is 13 but I can absolutely never remember an issue with taking a pram/buggy into a cafe/restaurant or anywhere else, even with twins in a pram. You just park it alongside the table, moving the chairs if necessary if a small space.

Bonkers.

I’ve obviously got you as worked up as the cafe has got me! Please read my post again before continuing to crucify me for not understanding that businesses need to make a profit.

I said “Previously I’ve always felt like a valued customer but now it feels like they’ve been willing to let us give them custom when they need the extra takings.” Referring to how their ATTITUDE to our custom has left me FEELING.

I have not suggested anywhere that they should turn down income, but am upset that my DM was refused access when there WAS space.

Of course there are.

We use our travel pram when out and about like that. A 4 month old baby is not a newborn but even then you can newborn inserts for the smaller travel ones 👍🏻

I have never been turned away from anywhere with a pram. I would delete the 5 star review and leave a 1 star review mentioning how inaccessible they are.

I would also go and chat to someone who you know has seen you there a lot and ask them what the deal is. See if there is anyone you can complain to.

Well if their anything like the mums who refuse to fold prams on buses and trains to allow a wheelchair user on. Claiming it can't be folded then they are not being unreasonable. All prams fold how do they think drivers get them in and out. They just can't be bothered.

A storage area is a good idea. I'd avoid a cafe and look for another if prams were between seating as I don't like feeling trapped or having to disturb someone to ask to get by.

i am not got in the least, I queried the basis of your post,of course they need the takings. It’s a cafe,for profit business, yes you’ve been in there and have been accommodated at quieter times. They said on this occasion they were too busy,that’s their judgement call to make. Clearly there wasn’t space,the owner declined your mum on that basis. Did you mum think she should/could just squeeze in in to her favourite cafe? Owner said no it was too busy eg unsuitable on that occasion to have the pram. You’re not entitled to be squeezed in on basis you’ve been before (nice if it happens, for sure) but no they’re not obliged to accommodate a pram at a busy time

Goodness, OP. I hear you.

Local Cafes, coffee shops, etc. it's massively important to understand their clientele and be supportive and welcoming.

If they welcome you and make you feel valued in the week, they have to figure out a way to respect you in their busier times too.

Children, babies, dogs, cats - almost all coffee shops understand the needs of and cater to their own revenue-generating markets now. Foolish of your coffee shop if they don't.

One of my favourite cafes had to ban prams because it is tiny and there just isn’t room. It also had to make a point of asking people to buy at least a drink and a cake each. Apparently a group of local parents had been meeting there frequently for a couple of hours, filling the place and buying one coffee each or something. Behaviour like that will put a small cafe out of business.

But a weekday cafe will be less busy and able to accommodate a buggy easily
i know places that will apply a minimum spend at busy times or simply decline prams. During week they’ll have shopper specials and offers to get folk in. With weekend crowd it’s busier and they don’t need to do offers or accommodate lots of prams

Never ever had this happen in a cafe, or seen it happen. Mind you, I live in an area with a lot of young parents and if the cafes banned prams, they'd lose at least half their custom. I don't think any of them are stupid enough to alienate a major tranche of their customer base.

I'd be annoyed too, OP. Find another cafe, as your money isn't welcome there.