Page 12 | To be annoyed my DM was refused access with pram?

EmeraldA129 · 2024-02-09T16:36:46+00:00

We have a local cafe we go to fairly regularly. Normally myself, my DM & DD who is 4 months & in a pram. We almost always have lunch, juice, coffee & often cake too. Sometimes my DM comes to look after DD for a few hours & will almost certainly go to the same cafe, sometimes for a full lunch though sometimes just a cake & coffee. I’ve given them 5* reviews for being so welcoming & friendly. We like the team, we like the food & there are a number of tables that can have a pram sitting next to them without causing hassle to the cafe or other customers. on Sunday my DM went with my DD & although there were tables available the man that works there (we think owner/ manager) said ‘no, sorry, it’s fine to come in with that when it’s quiet, not when we are busy’. My DM asked if he was being serious, he said yes & showed the person behind her to a table that was free. Other people were leaving & trying to offer their table to my DM, but the man said no, it wasn’t suitable. we’ve had lunch there many times before DD was born, but have been in at least 10 times since she was born. Previously I’ve always felt like a valued customer but now it feels like they’ve been willing to let us give them custom when they need the extra takings. My DM won’t be going back & I really don’t want to either. Also want to leave them a new 1* review to balance out my previously glowing one. This happened 5 days ago so it is clearly really bothering me that I’m posting about it now. AIBU to be annoyed?

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 10:31

ATerrorofLeftovers · 10/02/2024 10:21

It’s a legitimate business reason for them. But it’s a cold, hard one, looking short-sightedly at short-term profit and overlooking the longer-term goodwill of repeat custom that they have now lost.

They’re within their rights to do this. OP’s within her rights to not like it and decide not to go back again. She can spend her money elsewhere, as is her right. I would do that too, because I have a certain level of standards about how I want to be treated by people I have an ongoing relationship with. I don’t go back for more if I feel I’ve been treated badly and I don’t want to feel like I’m just being seen as £ in a till, even if overall that is the reason for the cafe being there.

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Lost custom why? It’s very fragile disposition to be so upset/disappointed by 1 knockback that will not return to a cafe liked so much that previously gave it5star. This is literally a non event at best a shrug and that’s a shame moment. All this valued customer waffle and it’s all about money is a really disproportionate reaction. It’s a urban setting with 3 cafe in same street, more in locality that she can go to

ATerrorofLeftovers · 10/02/2024 10:36

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 10:31

Lost custom why? It’s very fragile disposition to be so upset/disappointed by 1 knockback that will not return to a cafe liked so much that previously gave it5star. This is literally a non event at best a shrug and that’s a shame moment. All this valued customer waffle and it’s all about money is a really disproportionate reaction. It’s a urban setting with 3 cafe in same street, more in locality that she can go to

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It may be a disproportionate reaction to you, but it’s not to me or OP. It’s not disproportionate, she’s not ranting and raving and swearing. She’s simply going to go elsewhere now and I would too. Why be somewhere they can’t be bothered to put themselves out even a tiny bit? There are three cafes on that street, so very easy to use one of the others.

Eboni · 10/02/2024 10:43

CanNeverThinkOfAName · 09/02/2024 22:22

What madness is this? So cafes allow dogs in to drool on the floor sniffing for bits of food, getting under people’s feet, but not babies in prams?

Since when had this become the norm?

My youngest is 13 but I can absolutely never remember an issue with taking a pram/buggy into a cafe/restaurant or anywhere else, even with twins in a pram. You just park it alongside the table, moving the chairs if necessary if a small space.

Bonkers.

I agree with this. The trip hazard excuses trotted out do not make sense when this is a dog friendly cafe.

There’s often massive dogs in these cafes in Glasgow , and I’ve seen up to 2 with the one owner. And the risk to a customer (or staff) if they accidentally nudge or step on a dog is far greater than the risk to someone if they accidentally brush up against or nudge a pram on their way in/out.

A former colleagues boyfriend was bitten by a dog in a crowded Glasgow pub. I don’t think he even mistakenly stepped on it - he was just walking by close to it.

And re. Trip hazards prams - unlike dogs - don’t make sudden movements and dart across the room suddenly, and are much easier to spot so surely you can more easily avoid tripping over them?

I have a condition which affects my coordination and I was at a counter ordering breakfast when I turned I nearly tripped over a dog that had just appeared at my feet and seemingly wanted to “play” or whatever dog owners called it 😣. Even someone without the condition I have could have easily tripped. I was really annoyed and asked the staff to find the owner and take the dog away. It seemed to have taken an intense interest in me and was resistant to moving so the young woman at the counter had to waste time sorting that out until the owner finally appeared 🙄

I find it much easier to sidestep stationary prams!

I’m child free but struggling to understand how cafes especially ones which are dog friendly can even justify this? Something has really gone wrong with society.

Pumpkinpie1 · 10/02/2024 10:49

Just because you visit regularly doesn’t give you preferential treatment.
A bit entitled, H&S is a big concern and with the blame culture he didn’t want an accident where someone could get hurt and Sue.
I think he was reasonable

Lifestooshort71 · 10/02/2024 10:54

MariaVT65 · 10/02/2024 09:03

Ok, maybe I should also try ‘idiot’ instead of ‘twat.

Because if that happened to me, I would absolutely leave reviews online to say I was denied access because I have a baby. If nothing else, to inform other parents who then may not wish to go during the week either. Business lost. It makes business sense to be accommodating to your customers.

She wasn't denied entry because she had a baby. She was denied entry because they deemed her pram was too big to fit in. Could have been filled with a week's shopping - the answer would have been the same.

ilovesooty · 10/02/2024 10:56

The OP has every right to take her custom elsewhere or to query the incident with the manager.

Leaving a 1 star review online just seems spiteful.

PancakeTuesdayiscoming · 10/02/2024 11:17

Leaving a 1 star review online just seems spiteful

Or totally justified. And likely helpful to the manager because anyone thinking of attending with a small child then won’t bother. Just think of the reduced hassle for him…

ChillysWaterBottle · 10/02/2024 11:17

birdssinging · 10/02/2024 10:03

I think the feelings might have a lot to do with the general devaluation of motherhood, the loneliness, the difficulties of having a baby, the current seemingly growing belief that babies and children are a nuisance and shouldn't be in public spaces, the feelings of invisibility as a woman who has had a child ... I'd barely give it a second thought if I was declined entry to a cafe pre-baby. I'd probably be a bit irritated, question whether the manager was having a bad day and make a mental note to go and spend more money elsewhere next time. Now with a baby though, I would find it a real knockback. Sorry if that makes me a bit pathetic. A kinder explanation from the owner or offer to compromise re. the pram would have made all the difference, but it sounds like OP's mother was promptly dismissed. The OP isn't planning to go and trash the cafe or shout at the owner or anything. She just wants to write a review reflecting what happened and now isn't planning to return to somewhere she once felt welcome. I think that's really sad.

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It doesn't make you pathetic at all and this is a really good comment (one that some of the PP could do with reading carefully and reflecting on their attitudes tbh).

MariaVT65 · 10/02/2024 11:19

ilovesooty · 10/02/2024 10:56

The OP has every right to take her custom elsewhere or to query the incident with the manager.

Leaving a 1 star review online just seems spiteful.

If anything, it is a warning to other parents thinking of going to the cafe. Saves them potentially wasting their time. It’s not spiteful.

MariaVT65 · 10/02/2024 11:24

Theminer · 10/02/2024 09:56

The disabled 3 year old is covered by equality legislation, so no he can’t be refused entry (in principle).

The manager made a snap decision in the moment, it may or may not have maximised profit- we don’t know what the mum would have ordered versus what other people ordered so we can’t possibly know. Or, he followed the policy because that’s what he is paid to do.

We don’t know what the usual clientele is or what their financial position is so it is pointless to speculate about whether it’s good business sense for them.

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I know the disabled 3 year old is covered, but:

a) it also means the Pp’s argument of the baby being a ‘non-paying customer’ doesn’t fly.

b) the child is still in a (special) pushchair, not a wheelchair. It may not be immediately apparent that he is disabled. So cafes really need to be careful about immediately refusing all pushchairs.

My son didn’t walk until he was 2 due to hypermobility, but also wasn’t registered disabled. Doesn’t take much to be accommodating to paying customers.

MariaVT65 · 10/02/2024 11:31

Op i also agree with you that i also wouldn’t leave a push chair outside.

But they were rude not to even offer this option to your DM.

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 11:41

MariaVT65 · 10/02/2024 11:19

If anything, it is a warning to other parents thinking of going to the cafe. Saves them potentially wasting their time. It’s not spiteful.

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It is malicious & petty to leave a 1⭐️ for a cafe you actually rate 5⭐️. Wholly disproportionate. Disappointing, yes. Merits a low review, no that’s malicious. These things happen,and you shrug and go elsewhere. Take that I'm a valued customer you can’t treat me like this vibe and spend your money elsewhere that you can get it to

MariaVT65 · 10/02/2024 11:43

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 11:41

It is malicious & petty to leave a 1⭐️ for a cafe you actually rate 5⭐️. Wholly disproportionate. Disappointing, yes. Merits a low review, no that’s malicious. These things happen,and you shrug and go elsewhere. Take that I'm a valued customer you can’t treat me like this vibe and spend your money elsewhere that you can get it to

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Nope. If i get refused entry to somewhere like a cafe because I have a baby, i would absolutely leave them a 1 star review.

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 11:46

Such entitlement. Having a baby in a pram isn’t an access all areas pass. Sometimes the place cannot accommodate a pram. They said they couldn't accommodate on basis of too busy… so go back when less busy or go elsewhere.

MariaVT65 · 10/02/2024 11:48

In light of this thread, i have just taken the time to leave my local independent cafe a 5 star review for always being welcoming to me.

Rummikub · 10/02/2024 11:57

Sounds like the manager could’ve been more polite instead of basically ignoring her after saying no and offering a table to the people behind. They could’ve put a notice up on the door- sorry no prams today. But it does sound like there was room as other patrons were offering their now empty tables.

It sounds like there was a queue and if the pram was that big and obvious the manager could’ve had a quiet word instead of waiting until she was at the front.

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 12:02

Op said it’s a noordi pram,they are pretty substantial
it’s a disproportionate response to one knockback at a busy time
prams are not access all areas there need to be a degree of commonsense, and frankly resilience. Being upset 5 days later is somewhat of a disproportionate response to a minor disappointment . Having a pram doesn’t confer access all area and of course on some occasion some establishments will decline on basis of being busy. And… you deal with it. You don’t write pity reviews and you really shouldn’t be preoccupied 5 day later

To be annoyed my DM was refused access with pram?

Original poster

EmeraldA129 · 10/02/2024 12:02

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 11:41

It is malicious & petty to leave a 1⭐️ for a cafe you actually rate 5⭐️. Wholly disproportionate. Disappointing, yes. Merits a low review, no that’s malicious. These things happen,and you shrug and go elsewhere. Take that I'm a valued customer you can’t treat me like this vibe and spend your money elsewhere that you can get it to

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Sorry, but I actually responded to you previously on what my updated review would be but you either haven’t read it or you are just on one. I initial review was all round including them being family friendly & being accommodating of pram. This has changed significantly so the new review would reflect the new attitude.

I am not claiming any kind of entitlement, I feel it’s important to highlight that I have been there many times with the pram to outline on this thread why their new attitude was so unexpected.

OP posts:

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 12:05

EmeraldA129 · 10/02/2024 12:02

Sorry, but I actually responded to you previously on what my updated review would be but you either haven’t read it or you are just on one. I initial review was all round including them being family friendly & being accommodating of pram. This has changed significantly so the new review would reflect the new attitude.

I am not claiming any kind of entitlement, I feel it’s important to highlight that I have been there many times with the pram to outline on this thread why their new attitude was so unexpected.

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I know you’ve been there before you said. Valued customer and all that. Why are you raising this again? Your Mums disappointed? Yes I get that but it’s all a bit fraught

MariaVT65 · 10/02/2024 12:06

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 12:02

Op said it’s a noordi pram,they are pretty substantial
it’s a disproportionate response to one knockback at a busy time
prams are not access all areas there need to be a degree of commonsense, and frankly resilience. Being upset 5 days later is somewhat of a disproportionate response to a minor disappointment . Having a pram doesn’t confer access all area and of course on some occasion some establishments will decline on basis of being busy. And… you deal with it. You don’t write pity reviews and you really shouldn’t be preoccupied 5 day later

If this happened to me at my local cafe, i would absolutely be upset about it. There is no other cafe in walking distance and it would put me off even attempting to go again with a risk i may be refused. Maternity leave is isolating enough as it is.

birdssinging · 10/02/2024 12:07

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 12:02

Op said it’s a noordi pram,they are pretty substantial
it’s a disproportionate response to one knockback at a busy time
prams are not access all areas there need to be a degree of commonsense, and frankly resilience. Being upset 5 days later is somewhat of a disproportionate response to a minor disappointment . Having a pram doesn’t confer access all area and of course on some occasion some establishments will decline on basis of being busy. And… you deal with it. You don’t write pity reviews and you really shouldn’t be preoccupied 5 day later

I doubt OP’s done nothing but reflect on this for the last five days. Mumsnet is a place for discussion, people post about far less without being accused of reacting disproportionately.

I think choosing not to frequent a business that made you feel unwelcome and writing a review saying why isn’t a disproportionate response. If she was planning to lie or swear or make personal attacks in her review then I’d agree but she’s not. It is helpful to write that review for future customers with prams if nothing else. Just as the cafe has no loyalty to OP, she is not duty bound to continue going there, nor to stand by a review based on a previous experience.

Original poster

EmeraldA129 · 10/02/2024 12:11

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 12:05

I know you’ve been there before you said. Valued customer and all that. Why are you raising this again? Your Mums disappointed? Yes I get that but it’s all a bit fraught

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Are you a bot?! 😂
you made it sound as though me saying I’ve been there lots is be being entitled, I’ve said I’ve been there lots to highlight that this was completely different to previous experiences.

my reference to a valued customer is that I used to feel like that due to my experiences, not that I expected any special treatment.

you are either purposefully misinterpreting what I have written or you are spamming the thread.

OP posts:

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 12:11

birdssinging · 10/02/2024 12:07

I doubt OP’s done nothing but reflect on this for the last five days. Mumsnet is a place for discussion, people post about far less without being accused of reacting disproportionately.

I think choosing not to frequent a business that made you feel unwelcome and writing a review saying why isn’t a disproportionate response. If she was planning to lie or swear or make personal attacks in her review then I’d agree but she’s not. It is helpful to write that review for future customers with prams if nothing else. Just as the cafe has no loyalty to OP, she is not duty bound to continue going there, nor to stand by a review based on a previous experience.

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Absolutely, if you don’t like an establishment don’t return. One has choices. In op case plenty. It is unfair to rate a cafe 1 star on basis of once being declined it’s churlish

MariaVT65 · 10/02/2024 12:14

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 12:11

Absolutely, if you don’t like an establishment don’t return. One has choices. In op case plenty. It is unfair to rate a cafe 1 star on basis of once being declined it’s churlish

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Why is churlish to warn other people not to bother wasting their time coming here if they have a pram? It will save people time so they can go somewhere else instead. From op’s original post, there was clearly room in the cafe.

Zone2NorthLondon · 10/02/2024 12:14

EmeraldA129 · 10/02/2024 12:11

Are you a bot?! 😂
you made it sound as though me saying I’ve been there lots is be being entitled, I’ve said I’ve been there lots to highlight that this was completely different to previous experiences.

my reference to a valued customer is that I used to feel like that due to my experiences, not that I expected any special treatment.

you are either purposefully misinterpreting what I have written or you are spamming the thread.

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Do you understand how threads work? Genuinely you seem somewhat confused
You post, other’s answer. You may not like or agree with the answers. However one generally doesn’t resort to incongruent 😂 emojis or indignation. Most posters can and do roll with it
You seem to lack a certain resilience, do you often feel got at?