To be annoyed my DM was refused access with pram?

[EmeraldA129]

We have a local cafe we go to fairly regularly. Normally myself, my DM & DD who is 4 months & in a pram. We almost always have lunch, juice, coffee & often cake too.

Sometimes my DM comes to look after DD for a few hours & will almost certainly go to the same cafe, sometimes for a full lunch though sometimes just a cake & coffee.

I’ve given them 5* reviews for being so welcoming & friendly. We like the team, we like the food & there are a number of tables that can have a pram sitting next to them without causing hassle to the cafe or other customers.

on Sunday my DM went with my DD & although there were tables available the man that works there (we think owner/ manager) said ‘no, sorry, it’s fine to come in with that when it’s quiet, not when we are busy’. My DM asked if he was being serious, he said yes & showed the person behind her to a table that was free. Other people were leaving & trying to offer their table to my DM, but the man said no, it wasn’t suitable.

we’ve had lunch there many times before DD was born, but have been in at least 10 times since she was born. Previously I’ve always felt like a valued customer but now it feels like they’ve been willing to let us give them custom when they need the extra takings.

My DM won’t be going back & I really don’t want to either. Also want to leave them a new 1* review to balance out my previously glowing one.

This happened 5 days ago so it is clearly really bothering me that I’m posting about it now.

AIBU to be annoyed?

I wouldn't have collapsed a pram like OP's. I would have left it outside, and often did.

Yes, of course, I'd have held the baby while having a coffee, why not?

Yep - I've read the OP and absolutely don't think he behaved like a twat at all @MariaVT65 🤷‍♀️

Being in hospitality doesn't mean you have to accommodate absolutely everyone no matter what. It's also perfectly okay to say that they don't allow prams during busy periods but that it's okay on quieter days.

I don’t have kids and most of my friends kids that I babysit are too big for prams, but I’ve heard from other people there’s cafes in the south side that do this - this is probably one of them! They were absolutely shocked that a cafe that was happy to have dogs walking about and sticking out from tables with long leashes and doesn’t seemingly consider any of that a trip hazard /taking up space was hostile to prams.

Dogs > babies then? 😳

If I was there I’d have been one of those people who tried to make space for your pram. And I’d probably have left and never came back seen how the staff member handled the situation.

I recommend that you write a Google review on this so other people with or without prams are warned. I check reviews of anywhere I go to nowadays before I go.

Even though this policy won’t have a direct impact on me, as me & my friends are mostly pram-less it’s not the sort of business I’d want to give my money to.

What is the problem with a moving a chair and putting the buggy where the chair would go?

I don’t understand how you think it’s ok that the cafe didn’t as a bare minimum, offer the option of folding up the pram or telling DM she could come in if she was ok with leaving the pram outside. They didn’t even TRY to be accommodating. Twat.

Ok, maybe I should also try ‘idiot’ instead of ‘twat.

Because if that happened to me, I would absolutely leave reviews online to say I was denied access because I have a baby. If nothing else, to inform other parents who then may not wish to go during the week either. Business lost. It makes business sense to be accommodating to your customers.

What is the problem with a moving a chair and putting the buggy where the chair would go?

Because if it's busy they don't want to be moving furniture, causing trip hazards and potentially losing paying customers who would otherwise use that spot.

I don’t understand how you think it’s ok that the cafe didn’t as a bare minimum, offer the option of folding up the pram or telling DM she could come in if she was ok with leaving the pram outside. They didn’t even TRY to be accommodating. Twat.

OP hasn't said anything either way about whether they offered to fold the pram or allow her mum leave it outside - you seem to enjoy making things up don't you? 🤷‍♀️

Wow.

A chair in itself could be a tripping hazard wherever it is. Some thinking here is OTT.

And there a difference between ‘making things up’ and ‘making safe assumptions’. Don’t be nasty. Op did say in her post that other customers were offering their help, so I don’t see any reason why she would have left out the detail of the staff member also trying to help.

@EmeraldA129 did the cafe staff member tell your DM that she could come in if she folded the pram or left it outside?

OP hasn't said anything either way about whether they offered to fold the pram or allow her mum leave it outside - you seem to enjoy making things up don't you?

I thought that OP hadn't clarified this too, but she did - which changes things. The cafe owner / worker should have offered the option.

From OP's posts: Sorry, but no alternative solution was offered, it was just a flat no, not today.

Maybe you and/her have did something that annoyed them.

Most likely its just the policy- no prams at the weekend.

Ah thank you so much :)

@lifeispainauchocolat i won’t bother sitting and waiting for an apology

She didn’t say parents aren’t paying customers, she said a 4 month old baby in a pram isn’t a paying customer. Nobody is going to buy it a babychino and a biscuit… therefore the pram is taking up space that a paying customer could use.

A person in a wheelchair takes up as much space (probably- there are many small wheelchairs and many stupid oversized prams), but they are spending money. Same with a toddler in a buggy, takes up as much space as a pram but chances are someone will buy it a cake so they still make money.

Business’ don’t actually care about their customers feelings in general, they care about their profits. The bloke decided in that moment that the woman and pram didn’t present good profit potential- only they know their financial situation so only they know if they are right.

I don’t buy the ‘baby isn’t a paying customer’ argument though. Sorry.

My friend’s 3 year old is severely disabled and is only fed special milk through a tube in his stomach, as he can’t swallow. So he won’t be eating anything. And his buggy will also be a so-called ‘tripping hazard’ as people are calling it. Does that mean he should also be refused?

Also it’s relative to what you actually purchase there. You could have 4 adults who just buy a coffee each. Or you could have 2 parents or friends with buggy who buy a coffee, a cold drink and a lunch each. The ‘non-paying customer’ doesn’t land, sorry.

And as i’ve said, turning away prams isn’t good business sense at all if you’re a place to eat. Not sure who they think comes in during the working week.

I’m not implying anything. I don’t know you, your mother or the cafe staff. Anything is possible in that situation.

I once had a waiter in a cafe go off on one about entitlement and wasting his time… because I asked politely if they had any soya milk. My dad on the other hand goes into cafes, orders, opens his paper and doesn’t even bother to look up when people bring his food. I’ve never heard him say thank you- it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if a cafe didn’t want to encourage him back.

I don’t know if your mum is lovely or like my dad or anything about her- therefore it’s a possibility to me that she upset the staff in some way.

This is a disproportionate fuss, she got a knockback from a café. It’s an urban location with plenty more cafe in proximity. in fact op said that there are three cafe on the same street.
Waffling on about being valued customer and expecting more. Honestly?
It’s a cafe trying to maximise takings and on one occasion, the declined entry said that they were too busy. That Itself is legitimate reason. Too busy, potentially means at the pram was too large would be taken up space and the staff would have to manoeuvre around it or potentially that it would be an obstacle for other customers. Specifically cafe said not at this time saying citing the reason too busy.

The disabled 3 year old is covered by equality legislation, so no he can’t be refused entry (in principle).

The manager made a snap decision in the moment, it may or may not have maximised profit- we don’t know what the mum would have ordered versus what other people ordered so we can’t possibly know. Or, he followed the policy because that’s what he is paid to do.

We don’t know what the usual clientele is or what their financial position is so it is pointless to speculate about whether it’s good business sense for them.

@Theminer the child is also not able to walk.

Do you suggest a disabled parent also puts their disabled child on their lap if the parent looks strong enough?

Ps I think more needs to be done for wheelchair users

No- babies and disabled people are different.

Young disabled children are often transported in buggies rather than wheelchairs- those buggies should be treated in all respects as a wheelchair.

Being a disabled wheelchair user and mother of a disabled chronically ill child I have managed to understand that.

Seeing me walk past his garden gate with my takeaway cappuccino, my elderly neighbour shouted "Is your kettle broken?" 😂

I think the feelings might have a lot to do with the general devaluation of motherhood, the loneliness, the difficulties of having a baby, the current seemingly growing belief that babies and children are a nuisance and shouldn't be in public spaces, the feelings of invisibility as a woman who has had a child ... I'd barely give it a second thought if I was declined entry to a cafe pre-baby. I'd probably be a bit irritated, question whether the manager was having a bad day and make a mental note to go and spend more money elsewhere next time. Now with a baby though, I would find it a real knockback. Sorry if that makes me a bit pathetic. A kinder explanation from the owner or offer to compromise re. the pram would have made all the difference, but it sounds like OP's mother was promptly dismissed. The OP isn't planning to go and trash the cafe or shout at the owner or anything. She just wants to write a review reflecting what happened and now isn't planning to return to somewhere she once felt welcome. I think that's really sad.

I’ve been entirely open about the FULL interaction, there was nothing more to it so there was no offer to do something with the pram.

i know a lot of posters have talked about leaving the pram outside. I’ve lived in a small island community before where I would have felt comfortable doing that. Tbh I would not leave my pram sitting outside in a city, there is too high a chance that it wouldn’t be there when I got back to it.

but if the man at the cafe had said there was not enough space, if there wasn’t enough space & if he had offered to store the pram folded whilst DM held the baby then I would not have put up this post. I think I said something similar in a previous comment. As I would have felt that the cafe had taken some consideration of my DM & DD.

one thing I haven’t said is that we have only ever visited through the week. I have also been to the cafe on Saturdays & Sundays with DD & the pram.

I’d argue that the single guy they did accommodate at the table my DM & DD could have sat at wouldn’t have been spending more on his single lunch than my DM would have been on hers.

As I said, we don’t know what your mum would have ordered or how long she would have taken up a table. We also don’t know how much the other people spent or how long they took up a table.

There are so many possibilities that it’s totally pointless to speculate.

It’s a legitimate business reason for them. But it’s a cold, hard one, looking short-sightedly at short-term profit and overlooking the longer-term goodwill of repeat custom that they have now lost.

They’re within their rights to do this. OP’s within her rights to not like it and decide not to go back again. She can spend her money elsewhere, as is her right. I would do that too, because I have a certain level of standards about how I want to be treated by people I have an ongoing relationship with. I don’t go back for more if I feel I’ve been treated badly and I don’t want to feel like I’m just being seen as £ in a till, even if overall that is the reason for the cafe being there.

Yes, there is no point speculating but quite a few posts have been about how my DD obviously wouldn’t be ordering anything so the cafe needed the space for a paying customer. My DD & DM would have been sat at a table for 2 & instead of that the cafe offered the table to a single person who would also have only been ordering for 1.

i know a lot of posters have talked about leaving the pram outside. I’ve lived in a small island community before where I would have felt comfortable doing that. Tbh I would not leave my pram sitting outside in a city, there is too high a chance that it wouldn’t be there when I got back to it.

Correct, as lovely as the south side of Glasgow is I wouldn’t recommend anyone to leave their pram outside if they want it still to be there when you come back out to get it 😬 especially if an older person who would not be able to give chase to someone if they saw them running away with it.

I live in a medium size town now with relatively low levels of crime but even then in the library the “pram park” Where parents have to leave their prams before storytimes is inside the library. Not outside.