To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

@badgergirl5 He actually slipped and said “for God’s sake I know where the boundaries are” which is the biggest joke of the century, but also an insight perhaps into how he thinks. His boundary is very different to mine - perhaps anything less than sex he could excuse to himself?

I can’t for a second believe that he genuinely thinks messaging a woman that he promised years ago not to connect, sending gifts and (probably) saucy messages, isn’t crossing a boundary! The boundary was set years ago when he agreed to cut contact. He’s kidding himself.

Wouldn’t bother with a PI but would demand full access to bank statements, credit card statements for the last year or two and check for hotels and restaurants

OP - you don't need a PI

You know what you know and you feel what you feel and there is no going back now.

It sounds to me like the PI thing is for everyone else's benefit - so that you can show others proof of his cheating - because you have this misconception that you need to 'prove' his infidelity it to justify your actions and not be the 'baddie'.

You really really don't. You don't owe anyone anything. You can leave him for being a repeat offender in flirting/lying/crossing boundaries and you nobody has to see the 'evidence' for this. And to anyone that says "Well you don't know if he slept with her?" you respond "And I don't know that he didn't - because he is still lying/minimising/covering up and deleting texts. And that is NOT the sort of man I deserve to be married to and that is NOT the sort of man I want modelling 'husband' to the DC".

You don't need a PI - just the confidence to believe that you deserve better.

I would say to him something along the lines of..

Your refusal to show me the messages indicates guilt and I will take it as an admission of a physical affair and proceed with a separation/divorce. If you in any way want to salvage or work on this I need full access to those messages and full honestly and transparency on what went on and why followed by intensive therapy to see where this disgusting behaviour is stemming from. Full transparency and honestly is the only way to take the first step back onto the already shattered ladder of trust and you need to be willing to put a lot of work in to work on this relationship. In the mean time it is best you move out till we can begin the next steps, whether that is divorce or healing and therapy.

Because I did this and I kept all his friends in the divorce while ex husband is now alone in a one bedroom shack with cats.

It isn’t about protecting his reputation. It’s about protecting yours.

I need to update on what happened last night. He had a big breakdown (first time I’ve seen him cry in 15 years together) and admitted he’s been totally stupid and clearly has a problem.

Ah, it's The Script.

He's tried pretending he doesn't know what you're talking about - it didn't work.
He's tried minimising it - it didn't work
He's fed you a long complicated explanation that was all lies - it didn't work.

So now he's trying the MH route. It's not really him, he's got a problem. The aim of that one is to put it onto you and make it your problem, that you'll feel sorry for him and feel the need to rescue him. Don't let that one work.

The next act in the script is to get angry. He will say it's all your fault. That you didn't give him enough love/sex/attention. That you should have kept your beak out of his business and then you wouldn't have known. Be prepared.

I agree and with that anger will come the twisting and guilting and blackmailing -
how dare you accuse me, you are paranoid, you can’t leave me over nothing, I will tell everyone you’re crazy, you’ll be the one destroying the family, think of the kids etc etc

I guess that reaction is what I’ve been scared of since the start and exactly why I wanted to find more/ hire a PI/ call her/ get more evidence.
But he’s already told such dreadful lies and admitted to deleting WhatsApp chats on top of what I already knew, so I feel quite confident now to tell him that he didn’t do enough when he was given the chance.

I’ve just remembered something which could be nothing or could be significant.
When I discovered the first OW that he had been exchanging flirty texts with/ arranging to meet behind my back, he immediately responded to that confrontation by saying “you can call her - please call her! She will tell you it’s nothing.” At the time it made me apoplectic that he would give her that power, but now i look back (knowing that it wasn’t physical on that occasion because I later read all of their flirty messages) and realise that he wanted me to speak to her because he really was “innocent.” She was a horrible flirt and definitely fancied him, but nothing had happened.
This time, he won’t even let me see her number in his phone (although I could easily get it as I have her work number) and he won’t let me see their messages. So that’s either because:
a) it’s deeply embarrassing for him because he’s been trying so hard but nothing much has actually happened - but he knows how bad he looks because it’s 90% him
or b) their relationship is a full blown affair this time

Maybe say this to him OP - you’d like to speak to her, like he offered the last time

Even if you don’t, just to watch his reaction

There are no guarantees that if you did get to speak to her that she would tell you the truth, he might have already spoken to her and given her the heads up that you might call

I would definitely want to see the messages

I think you’re right, I just think the suggestion would likely cause panic on husband’s side which would indicate there’s a lot to hide. If he reacts differently to the last time where he essentially called OP’s bluff and confidently told her to call the OW, then it’s fairly obvious there is a difference between the situations.

There was an OP on here around a year ago, maybe just over a year who suspected her DH of cheating. She hired a PI and they got evidence of him cheating for her. For all the same reasons you have shared, she needed to know for sure

Came back to see your updates OP. Gutted for you. A truly remorseful man who will do anything to make it work will do ANYTHING, literally ANYTHING to fight to fix this. And the only way the relationship could ever work is from that level of commitment / remorse / regret / willingness to admit his faults. He would show you the WhatsApps, ultimately, if he was truly sorry / fully accepting responsibility and telling you the whole truth. As he would have nothing else to loose in showing you and everything to gain - hope, the starting point to rebuild trust, transparency, the willingness to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to fix it.

He's fallen at the first hurdle, and I suspect it's because the massages will reveal more than you know and expose that he is still being dishonest.

If he wants to have any chance of ever coming back from this he needs to be honest and own up everything. He's not willing to do that. The relationship can therefore never have a hope of being fixed.

@PinkCardigan93 i agree with every word you’ve just written. I am so scared again. One minute I feel like I can do this and then I realise how hard it’s going to be. He has spent the day “show parenting” and doing way more with our kids than he ever normally would: sitting with them doing homework, playing games, practising for school. He also made a big show of not eating lunch, clearly making the point he feels too sick to eat. I hate him for this. I think he will manipulate those poor kids into feeling sorry for him.

God he sounds insufferable

We're all with you in spirit OP! Honestly you are being incredibly strong and brave. You can do this. I don't know you but I'm so damn proud of you for standing firm.
Try not to fear what will come. We can't control other people, and how they act, the choices they make or what they do. But we can control how we react to them and exist in our own minds. Please put yourself at the forefront of yours and really be kind to yourself. That is the best way you can honour your children - by being an example of someone who ultimately loves and respect themselves. You'll get through this, your kids will be fine. Try not to panic about him being a manipulator / liar.

Trust me, my child's father is not a great person. And when I left him I was TERRIFIED of the consequences. I was convinced he would manipulate my child, be a toxic parent.

... And in many ways he is, but I tell you what my child sees straight through it. And he's 5. They are smarter than we give them credit for.

Just stay in your lane, focus on yourself and your children. You've made it black and white for him what the options are moving forward. The balls in his court essentially if he's willing to admit all, be honest and do whatever he needs to do to make things better. Warts and all! Or if he won't. In which case, screw him.

Honestly, I promise the kids will be fine. It will be shit for a short while, but then it will be better than it ever was before.

The show parenting and not eating also speaks volumes. Manipulation 101

Guilty conscience. If he was innocent he’d be pissed off and indignant that he was being accused of something so wide off the mark that could have catastrophic consequences for his family. He’d be tearing himself inside out to prove his innocence. He isn’t.

The crux is - why won’t he let OP speak to this woman when he would the other one? “Why is this one different?” - he needs to verbalise an explanation. Why won’t he let her read the messages? We know, but he hasn’t got a leg to stand on if he can’t answer this basic question.

Indeed

To be honest, 90% of husbands would happily screw a different attractive young woman every day of the week. The only thing that's stopping them is they're either not attractive enough, don't have the time, or are afraid of getting caught.

OP's hubby is likely no different except for the fact that he's probably good-looking, charming/intelligent, and perhaps minted.

A physical affair is an extension of masturbating to porn which most married men and women are guilty of.

Sounds like the OP didn't hold DH in particularly high esteem anyway so maybe this will be a guilt-free way of giving him the chop. So now if the kids suffer, mentally, she can blame it totally on DH.

One thought though, if the marriage was good besides this, and there's cash for a PI, why not explore therapy?

Ummmm really!

“Sounds like the OP didn't hold DH in particularly high esteem anyway so maybe this will be a guilt-free way of giving him the chop. So now if the kids suffer, mentally, she can blame it totally on DH.”

he is the one that has admitted to emotional cheating… just not yet admitted to the physical side… and it’s HER fault the kids will suffer…? Are you mad/ok? Think you need to check your own self respect here