To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

Thanks everyone.
Honestly, I don’t care about the cost of a private investigator. I am going to speak to one tomorrow to see what they could do given the circumstances (as I don’t think following him would find anything at all). I want to know if they can dig around and find out if his or her colleagues know anything/ if they can see any phone call details or messages. I doubt this is legal though so they might not be able to help. I don’t want to torture myself with details - I just want to be able to tell him once and for all that he didn’t get away with the lies.

It occurred to me that I could call the OW and pretend that I too am another woman!!!! I could say I think he’s been stringing us both along and I’m contacting her to see if I’m right that I’m not the only one. Am I just having crazy thoughts?!!!? Obviously I would block my number first and I don’t think she’d ever know for sure that it was me. Talk me out of this if it’s stupid.

I guess the only risk is that he’s already messaged her to warn her that you know, so with the timing it’s pretty likely she will assume that it’s you. Unless you pretended you were a friend of yours who you had confided in who happened to also be having some kind of secret relationship with the husband - but that’s possibly getting a bit complicated!

@Sceptical123 sorry I just saw your question about whether I would want him if he sought therapy. The thing is, I think he would continue to lie his way through it. I’ll never know what was in those messages and the actual nature of their relationship. I’d continue to doubt him even if he went to therapy every day for the next year.

You've made up your mind. What's the point of a PI now? It would be cheaper to dig up his old WhatsApps but if you don't want to do that there's no point getting a PI. Just move on.

Don’t call her.
You are still seeking proof and answers.
Hopefully you will come to a point where that no longer matters.
Also, he sounds like the type who lies to himself to justify things and believes his own lies. I am not sure counseling will help this.

He knows what he has done is wrong - what you know about plus the details you don't know - he knows you can never trust him again, he knows he deserves to be left. I think that is the proof you are looking for.

If you want to know exactly what's happened the WhatsApp's will tell you but you said you didn't want to know what's in them. So maybe it's best to leave the PI which would possibly just give you the same info. Also not sure if they can find out about previous events or just upcoming ones?

Agree counselling won't help as he's still not willing to be 100% transparent. He'll use it as a way to manipulate you back onto his side.

But I understand this is all so new and sudden, that you want to know more. I really think you need to talk to some people in real life, I hope your parents are good at listening (hopefully they are).

What makes situations like this even more shittily frustrating is that this selfish little man has ruined this for everybody involved not just for now but the future. You’ve discovered he’s deceived you more than once. He claimed he didn’t realise he was overstepping before (apologies if I imagined that) but in 2015 you made it categorically clear that he was, which he accepted and vowed no more. But as he’s proven his capability of going there again despite this, you’ll never be able to trust him will you, and are likely to remain under a cloud of doubt and suspicion every time you hit a rocky parch or have an argument, or the older he gets and his need for flattery and validation increases. How much will you regret wasting any more of your time and peace of mind on him if this resurfaces years from now.

Many couples go on happily, completely oblivious to the other persons infidelity and never find out. Unfortunately he has been found out so the illusion of a faithful, happy marriage has already been ruined by him. Now it will always be in your mind, even if the back of it, as the trust is gone. Old adage - You can glue a broken vase back together but it’s never the same and is always that bit weaker from every fresh knock comes to mind. This is all his fault OP. If you are prepared to do some intense therapy with him to make the marriage bearable and happier for the sake of the kids while they are so young it would be understandable, no one would blame you, they would probably say however it is far more than he deserves.

You’ve done very well so far. I am so very sorry he has done this to you.

The smoking gun is the unwillingness to show you the WhatsApp messages, no further proof is necessary.

I wouldn’t want to delve any deeper into his dirty dealings, you may discover things that will devastate you further. No one is worth that level of psychological damage.

Save yourself from the stress, which is not good for your physical and mental health. Wash your hands off the whole thing and focus on healing yourself from this. Spend that time and money on yourself! Book a therapist, get a massage, go to a spa, anything but rolling around in the mud with this pig.

Preserve your dignity. You do not need proof for family and friends, it is enough that he has been sending gifts to another woman and has deleted WhatsApp messages and refuses to retrieve them. More importantly, a woman he had already been forbidden from contacting, so it was a recurring problem!

People are not stupid, they will not think you ended your marriage over nothing.

If it were me, I wouldn’t even divulge the details, simply that it was infidelity and that is a dealbreaker for you.

Don’t contact her. That could be deemed as harassment and then it will be you who is considered the bad guy.

I didn’t realise it could be harassment. Ok I won’t go there.

When they go low, you go high. Keep your dignity, never foul mouth your husband to people in RL, keep to the facts and play by the book. Be generous with contact and don’t give your STBX any reason for him to diss you.

Yes that is a risk. She could contact the police if she knows it is you and tell them she is feeling anxious and scared etc and they will log it. Someone said that a bf did that to her following a breakup after they had reconnected and she grilled him as to his part in the breakdown of their relationship. He didn’t like that and blocked her and she tried to call on a different phone and the police contacted her. I think if it happens twice they take further action. Obviously things aren’t black and white and it’s the nature of the conversation that’s relevant but unless you recorded it (I’m not sure if you’re allowed to if they are oblivious) she could tell them whatever she wanted and they have to take action without any evidence to the contrary.

People really are shit aren’t they 🙄

That’s arguably more than he deserves and showing far more consideration than he’s shown to her. She doesn’t owe him a thing.

@GreenCycler had it spot on. Preserve your dignity.

I had all these ridiculous ideas when I was in your position. I know how tempting it is.

But really, what will it change?

make that your mantra.

its not just the cost of the PI. It’s the wasted time and energy dealing with it. And the inevitable upset. You know enough. Spend your precious time looking forward- not backward

Yes, I’d love to hear more about your glimmer of excitement about the prospect of being free of all this.

What other things might you be able to do then that you can’t do now? Maybe you can begin to do some of them already.

I agree with this - focus on the future. But I can see why OP would want categorical proof that he has been unfaithful so she has no guilt about seeking divorce and being the one to actively separate the family (yes HE did this by his actions, obviously, but he has passively divided the family bc he will claim he doesn’t want to leave etc). It’s a massive decision.

Sexting, sharing sexual photos or even just heavy flirting equates to physical cheating in some ppl’s book but not others, as does emotional affairs. I don’t blame OP for wanting to know what category this falls into before ending it once and for all. She is owed that but that’s not to say she will get that type of closure. OP, I think it’s something you may have to accept as he sounds thoroughly ashamed of his actions, knows you are justified in wanting to kick him out, and won’t be offering proof of his abhorrent behaviour. The fact he isn’t angrily pleading his innocence and going above and beyond to prove it speaks volumes, he’s feeling guilty.

This has been a life lesson for him if nothing else. Actions have consequences. He didn’t realise how lucky he was to be given a 2nd and 3rd chance all those years ago. He decided to take you for a ride again now bc he thought he could get away with it as the previous times were so long ago. In his mind he may have framed it that he wasn’t being a shit to you bc you were oblivious and therefore there was no harm to his flirting or whatever it was . He may have had no intention to actually get physical, but the fact that he sees her semi regularly for work, it’s not someone he met online living the other side of the globe, and he’s got form for trying to arrange meet-ups with women behind your back - this was actively deceitful as he was checking you were free to look after the kids/would be away or whatever so he could go on a date. You foiled those instances, but they were the ones you knew about.

Massive, massive hugs. I’d give him one last chance to show you WhatsApp’s to prove it wasn’t an affair and explain you will be telling your parents or a friend if he doesn’t want, to as that will be conclusive proof that he’s cheated. If he’s sticking to his guns he didn’t cheat - why won’t he show you? What is there that you won’t want to see?

Would he be ok with discovering all this about you if the tables were turned? Ask him. How would he react?

If he cares about you he’ll acknowledge you need to speak to somebody about all this in RL as you are in real need of support. Whether that’s someone close or a therapist is up to you at this stage x

Have you recorded any of his admissions so far?

i feel like that might be wise insurance if you are able to do so discreetly ( for when he turns on his water works and pleas of innocence to others )

@badgergirl5

Ok, decision made then. The main thing now is to keep your dignity. You'll be so glad you did when this is all over.

Will contacting the OW look dignified? Will hiring a PI to dig into his activities help you keep your dignity? Chances are they won't.

At some point this will all be over. You don't want to look back and cringe at anything you did. You want to look back with pride and know you kept your dignity.

You've made a good start. Keep going the way you're going.

And yes, speak to your parents. Let them be your rock to lean on and your soft place to land.

You've got this.

When they go low, you go high. Keep your dignity, never foul mouth your husband to people in RL, keep to the facts and play by the book. Be generous with contact and don’t give your STBX any reason for him to diss you

What sort of 1950s playbook did this come from?

Why shouldn't the op talk to people about what her husband has done?

That "advice" sounds more like she should protect his reputation than anything else. She's allowed to speak about her own experience.

@badgergirl5
you are being admirably strong, I’m sure you haven’t felt strong at times, but you really have.

I’d advise against PI & contacting OW. You wouldn’t find anything to make you feel better. I suspect you’d just feel worse & in the future when u can look back, that would be the only part you’d regret.

you know you’ll never trust him again & now just want the easiest way out.
All you need to tell DC for now is that daddy is staying at the other house for a while. If he won’t go, tell him you will, but he’d be choosing to make things more difficult for DC
(Make yourself busy elsewhere when he’s spending time with them, don’t try to act like everything is normal)
Find a good therapist for yourself & find one that specialises working with children (possibly available through school?) have an appointment made for DC ready for telling them about divorce. The earlier they have a therapist to talk things through, the easier they’ll find the whole situation. A professional will encourage them to verbalise their feelings, fears & questions. They’ll help them work through it calmly without judgement or catastrophising & encourage them to come to you with questions they need answered.
children that age need to know how their world will change, what it will look like for them. They need to know they are still loved by both parents & their wishes will be considered

As to what to tell others, your parents, best friend & very very close people can have the whole truth (if u want to). Other family & friends “There were indiscretions, infidelities & lies spanning several years. I’m no longer prepared to live with no trust so we are separating. We hope you can respect our decision & assist in making the whole situation as easy as possible for our DC”
for more distant friends/work colleagues “we are separating & trying to be as civil as possible for DC”

You cannot control what he tells people so don’t beat yourself up over what he might say. You can ask him to stick to basic “we are separating and staying civil” so that you don’t have to “correct them with the truth”

As you’ve already started to see glimmers of positivity of what your future might hold, focus on that, make yourself a list of the positives, the things you want to do. I agree with PP, get a massage, facial, therapist, pamper yourself a bit, you deserve it.

Youve got this 💪🏼

“ I’d give him one last chance to show you WhatsApp’s to prove it wasn’t an affair and explain you will be telling your parents or a friend if he doesn’t want, to as that will be conclusive proof that he’s cheated. If he’s sticking to his guns he didn’t cheat - why won’t he show you? What is there that you won’t want to see? “

@Sceptical123 This is what I tried this morning. He actually slipped and said “for God’s sake I know where the boundaries are” which is the biggest joke of the century, but also an insight perhaps into how he thinks. His boundary is very different to mine - perhaps anything less than sex he could excuse to himself?
I demanded his blackberry many years ago (when it was the first flirtation - the one that came before this woman). I knew he couldn’t delete blackberry messages and, similar to this situation, I needed conclusive proof of whether it was physical. He resisted for DAYS before agreeing to hand it over when he could tell I was going to walk out. I locked myself in the bathroom and read every message between them. Outrageous flirtation, but obvious nothing physical had happened. This could be similar - perhaps he just can’t take the shame of showing me how slimy he has been. But I don’t have the fight left in me to keep demanding like I did back then.
And of course - there’s always the possibility that he HAS slept with this one.

I would probably text her rather than call.
.. something like… look I know somethings been going on, I’m not mad at you it’s all him, he won’t tell me the truth. Will you please tell me the truth? Happy to call if it’s easier over the phone. I just need closure.

Or do call and record the call, saying at the start I hope you don’t mind I am going to record this because I don’t think he will believe me if I tell him we spoke. You don’t have to say anything if you don’t want to talk to me but I’d really appreciate it woman to woman if you could just let me know what’s been going on.

I would definitely need to see those messages…… no excuses

I would need to know for the future that I 100% made the correct decision