To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

No one should be nosing around their partner's HR department, starting rumours in their workplace. Better to hire PI.

You don't need all the answers now. Just take things one step at a time.

You - and your children - will come through this and you're all going to be OK.

If you have reached a clear decision, then that's good, it will save you a lot of stress & heartache.

If you think your husband might refuse to move out, then I'd suggest not mentioning that you've decided to divorce just yet. He might be more likely to move into the other property if he thinks there's a chance he'll be coming back. Capitalise on his being sorry and wanting to sort things out while you can.

I know...It's duplicitous. But, I think many would agree its excusable in the circumstances.

Then, you find yourself a good solicitor and a good bottle of wine.

At the end of the day, none of it will matter, at least in my experience. If you decide to divorce him, so be it. Personally, I would hurl him aside with great force, but agonising over who did what and when, won't make much difference to the courts in terms of a financial settlement, no matter how grim or blatant their cheating was. I would focus on what it is you want next out of life, rather than exhausting yourself to prove he cheated. If you think he did, he did.

"If you think he did, he did."

So, "If you think he didn't, he didn't" is also correct, right?

Mumsnetters love a good break up and divorce - as long as it isn’t theirs.

Speak for yourself

Keep your chin high OP. It's not for you to prove or disprove his situation. It's for HIM to do all the hard work if he wants to recover this relationship. Don't chase, don't investigate. Don't trust a word he says - and let him work to either prove his innocence or be forthcoming about the truth. He can fix this. It's not for you to do.

It sounds like he's worried about his reputation, which gives you leverage over him which might be useful at this stage.

As pp have said - one step at a time. Ask him to move out while you work through things. Don't worry about too far ahead -concentrate on what you need to do right now to start to make your life better.

Wow, @badgergirl5. He has concocted an appalling web of lies, and is taking you for an utter fool.

How dare he pretend that he forgot his inappropriate ‘context’ and betrayal with OW, not to mention his pledge to cut contact. How dare he push this phony scenario of team gifts to her. The man is a slippery snake who is determined to control the narrative and serve you shit sandwiches without one iota of remorse or empathy.

He has proven time and again that he can’t be trusted and couldn’t care less about your boundaries. He is not monogamous and never will be.

OK, first off you don't need a reason to divorce other than "I am not happy". You don't trust him, sounds like you really haven't trusted him for years. That's reason enough. Of course, the final decision is up to you. I'm not telling you to leave him, I'm telling you that you already have reason enough to do so.

How do you do this? First, you figure out the finances and assets (yours, his, and joint). Then you see a solicitor and lay that all out along with your wishes regarding child residency and access. If you have particular wishes regarding the family home, lay that out too. A solicitor will be able to tell you if what you want is reasonable and/or likely to be granted. Remember that seeing the solicitor for that initial consult doesn't mean you have to file any papers there and then. It just means that you're educating yourself as to what divorce might mean to you.

As far as telling the children, unless they are in big exam years it may be better to tell them when school is in session. They'd (and you'd) have access to pastoral services and having school and schoolwork may keep them occupied whereas if they found out during summer they may have more time to 'brood'. The other thing about being in school is that they will undoubtedly have many children around them whose parents are divorced. They will see that many of those children are perfectly happy and that in today's world it's not something that will make them 'stand out' from their peers. That's not to say they won't be upset, just that it may give them more outlet for any worries and put some worries to rest.

If you ask him to move to the 2nd property and he refuses then that's that, you can't force him. But it shouldn't stop you from asking. And as far as him 'being reasonable' and 'going along' remember, the dog barks but the caravan passes on. You just keep on keeping on.

How do you behave in the meantime? You behave as normally as possible with the children. If/when you tell them, you answer their questions as simply and honestly as you can. But with him (if you feel like it) you 'cut off' any/all domestic services. You don't do his laundry, cook his meals, clean up after him, remind him of appointments, and especially no 'intimate' services. If he wants to live a bachelor life, let him start now. It may also encourage him to want to move to the 2nd property.

@AcrossthePond55 excellent advice

Thank you so much for the good advice.
I need to update on what happened last night. He had a big breakdown (first time I’ve seen him cry in 15 years together) and admitted he’s been totally stupid and clearly has a problem. Said he doesn’t know why he was sending gifts and “showing off” but he swears that nothing physical ever happened.

I got one thing wrong which was the strava connection. In my haste to go through his emails and focus on the gift receipts, I didn’t notice that all of her strava “likes” (which appeared as notifications in his inbox) were actually from months ago. I can see that on the screenshots I took. So he didn’t actually delete her the other day - she already hasn’t been active on there for a while. However he admitted freely that he deleted his WhatsApp chat with her so he couldn’t show me in order to prove it’s not an affair.

The strava thing doesn’t really make a difference.

Are you ok? You must be exhausted. How do you feel now that he's said these things? Sending you hugs x

Despite what government ministers would have you believe, it is possible to retrieve deleted WhatsApp chats from an Android phone. I am no expert, but there’s lots of advice online.

I guess I feel the same. I can see he wants to be forgiven but that doesn’t surprise me. I never thought he was the type who would leave - but he’s the type who wants to have his cake and eat it, and I don’t think I can ever trust him again. He just doesn’t have an answer to the question “why did this happen again?”.

@SnakesAndArrows he has an iPhone

Good morning, @badgergirl5. I hope you managed to get a bit of sleep, at least.

The Strava update may be interesting, though. Is it possible that her interest actually isn't so much in him at all (if her likes were from a few months back and nothing more recent?) yet he carried on with the Xmas present. And now that you have rumbled him, he sees that he is in grave danger of losing you - and it was all for nothing. Hence the maelstrom of tears for the first time in 15 years. Everything on the slide. I mean, perhaps all this was already part of your reasoning - that he might have been doing all the chasing and she was utterly uninterested. And it wouldn't necessarily change your thoughts about the future either!

Did he go to the other property after his outburst or stay?

Doh sorry, I thought you mentioned Android upthread. You can definitely do it on an iPhone.

Did he also delete any strava messages?
It feels like it’s time for him to be totally transparent, emails, work chat etc.

Did she accept the gifts? Has she even sent anything in return?

Either way, he’s actively pursued the woman he promised not to contact. Awful. He obviously thinks the grass is greener or wants to keep his options open, whether she’s reciprocated or not.

It is possible to recover deleted WhatsApp chats.

Hope you are ok!
I’ve been following so thought I’d put my two pence in.
If you can retrieve the WhatsApp messages or even speak to her and prove that there was nothing physical then I do believe you can salvage your relationship, that’s only if you still want to and still love him, if not then just bin it off.

I know people on here are hasty to say DIVORCE, but if it wasn’t physical then you could both do couples therapy and also he clearly also needs therapy just for himself. He needs to work on his own issues separately. I believe if you do this (and want to) then your relationship can be better and stronger than ever before.

just giving an other option than people screaming divorce and PI!
I haven’t been through this but others I know have and have come back better and stronger but after A LOT of work and continued therapy for the man. But he has to be onboard with this and do the work.

wish you the best x

I’m glad you have got some answers. Does it muddy the waters a bit for you? As an outsider it seems like he’s always on the lookout for these intrigues and flirtations. And I would assume open to anything that develops from them. Could you live with that? I couldn’t personally. It would make me very unhappy, but that is just my take.

it does seem quite pathetic of him. I’m not sure I could muster up any sympathy for him even if in tears.

He had no answer for the why? Because there is none beyond his ego and his lack of commitment to your marriage vows. You said it yourself he wants his cake and to eat it. At yours and your family’s expense. Unkind and arrogant.

I am not convinced. Imagine how close you’d have to be with a man, even if non-physical, how much you’d have to share with him to get to a stage where he sends you such personal presents.
it doesn’t go from banter and flirty chats to oh here is a book about hormones and some clothes and shoes for christmas.

What do you want to happen, OP?

Ok, he just point blank refused to restore the messages in front of me and show me. I told him he’s blown it. His excuse seems to be that I wouldn’t like the content of them even though they don’t prove an affair. Whatever.