To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

It sounds like the grovelling is about to start.

When did she discuss urinary issues? In the middle of a board meeting? And she’s raising money for hospital presumably in this area, not completely unbelievable but is pushing the limit. A very weird subject for him to come up with if it’s not true. But if it is true when would she have brought it up to a non-close man? It’s something you may mention to other women, but a guy you only see for the odd work meeting? Unless it is a serious issue - it could actually be. I’ve known ppl hospitalised with UTI’s…

I think it’s a bit far-fetched that he somehow forgot the nature of their messaging before. It wasn’t that long ago and caused enough of a rift that you spoke to him about it and he ceased contact. He just completely forgot about all that?

Don’t stay with your husband because the children don’t want you to split.

So so sorry.

Personally me. I would have divorced in 2004. 1 thing I said to DH anything to do with the opposite sex is am instant divorce no explanation no chances. What a cruel cruel man to carry on like this for years!!!

I would print everything off all evidence for your and for him from the years and give it to him with divorce papers. Rinse him in court. And move on with your life.

You don't need one dear. The evidence is clear. Don't believe his bull.

To be fair the presents aren’t of a romantic nature…….a book on hormones and a pair of runners……...not making excuses for him though……he should have told you he was back in touch with her……have you seen her Facebook page, is there anything on there that might back up his story regarding her health

I agree I don’t need one but I know how this will go without one:

• he will insist to mutual friends and family that I didn’t believe his sob story about an innocent client relationship and that I’ve thrown our marriage away. He loves me so much but I won’t try.
• he will emotionally manipulate the children as above
• his lack of true guilt/ shame will make him harder to negotiate with on finances and childcare

if I can throw the book at him and PROVE he has cheated, he will have to take a different approach. It will give me leverage to be able to say “I don’t need to tell people the sordid details as long as you are reasonable”

I know a lot of PPs have said they don’t agree with a PI, but I think I would be the same as you OP and I would want to know too so would definitely consider it, especially if you can afford it.

Also, another reason for getting a PI is the minuscule chance that nothing physical has actually happened between them and he is just trying to be a charming dick by sending her presents and keeping the flirtation going. I would probably still want to divorce him but I would know what I’m actually accusing him of - if he hasn’t actually slept with her, he will feel righteous and wronged by my incorrect accusation. So I’d rather have the full picture.

The chocolates are more romantic though. And the running stuff was sent two days before Christmas. Clearly a Christmas present.

Only thing with getting a PI is he will probably lay low, not see her. Or even end their relationship. Totally understand why you want to know though.
As for his story, I'm sure there are some grains of truth in there, perhaps she has been ill, perhaps she has done a sponsored run. However the presents were sent due to a personal relationship, not from the team. The trainers were a Christmas present, from him to her.
So sorry op.

How do you expect a PI to prove to you whether they slept together or not? The only way you can know that is if he tells you himself that it happened. And he could easily keep saying it didn't happen. You'll never know for sure either way.

Also, running shoes aren’t romantic but they are practical for what she enjoys doing and will no doubt be expensive and high quality. It will also enable her to think of him whenever she goes running and puts them on, or just sees them in her hallway at home. Romance doesn’t have to to be all hearts and flowers. She probably doesn’t value these things.

The ONLY way I’d believe the “client gift”
excuse is if he can show itemised expenses for the trainers and chocolates from work where they have reimbursed him the cost of the gift.

I was in a very similar position to you with my ex. Drove myself almost insane trying to find more "evidence".

Downloaded bank statement and phone bills from years ago. Looked at his work diary to cross reference his bank statements.

Hours and hours of sleuthing. Even talked to PIs to find out costs. I was about to go in the loft to rake about in old work expense accounts when I had an epiphany. I don't need any more proof what I had was enough. He'd crossed boundaries, and worse told me blatant lies going back years.

It was like a weight off my shoulders. This was after about a month of searching and driving myself insane. He kept denying and denying. Even with the evidence I did have he said it wasn't him.

Anyway I chucked him out. He told his sob stories to all and sundry including the kids.

But I didn't engage. Just said to kids that dad had done something that had upset me, I wasn't going to share it with them what it was l, but I no longer wanted to be with him.

I don't need family and friends to know and believe what he did. As long as I know, that was all that mattered.

I'm so sorry you're going though this and hope you find peace eventually. I'm so glad that you are financially secure that must be a great relief.

You will get through this.

I think also OP with regards to what family, kids etc will think of the situation, if he’s not admitting to anything now… can it not just be that what he did those years ago (work woman and other woman) was enough to end the marriage, but you chose to try and forgive? However the damage hasn’t been able to be fixed and he has continued to do ‘things’ to betray your trust. Even if ‘all’ he’s done now is what he says, he has still chosen to engage with a woman who had been the cause of earlier problems - as far as others are concerned he has secretly been contacting her and sending her gifts without ever mentioning it to you despite what happened with her in the past. I think if that’s all you have (no admissions or PI), that’s still enough for everyone to understand.

Can anyone who has been through this please tell me when I will stop feeling like I’ve been punched in the stomach? I can’t believe the physical feeling has stayed for so long

I’m so sorry OP. What a weak, weak man. It’s hard to respect someone who hasn’t learned from previous experience. That’s the thing that really gets to me. As you say he is clearly very insecure. Being flattered by someone’s attention and wanting to be needed is one thing. Buying them gifts is another.

You are far stronger than him. He may whine that you have broken up the family but you know the truth OP. It’s his insecurity that has broken up the family and his behaviour as a result of that insecurity.

I hope you find peace soon and am so pleased you have financial security regardless of him. You have options. That’s a wonderful thing. Please take care. You deserve so much better.

When he permanently leaves. It’s such a relief.

He must have known her shoe and clothes size to send her those gifts.

Yes - clothes size, shoe size, hormonal status, "urinary" issues, home address, running routes ... all perfectly standard client information (!) Bet he doesn't know such intimate details of his other clients, or even his friends.

@Lacuranights i know, there’s so many problems with his “professional present” story. The fact he knew her size, her home address, the fact they were sent right before Christmas… on a Saturday in fact. So he placed the order from HOME.
I don’t want anyone to think I believe his lies! They’re insanely bad!

When you first posted, due to the distance between them, I thought it was an emotional affair, an ego boost.

But because she now travels to your city or they both attend meetings in London, it is more of a relationship I guess. I mean even the fact he knows her shoe size - how many male friends shoe sizes do you know let alone work clients shoe sizes!

If you can see her FB page, click into the ‘about’ profile and you can see her likes . If she is going sponsored runs, she will have liked the associated charity’s page but even if she is, it doesn’t really tell you anything about their relationship, other than her interests. .

If you have the money, go down the PI route. I don't know if it is too late but maybe they can probably access Internet history (check with the PP who has used one to see what PI’s can actually access rather than what they claim to be able to access). It’s good you have both their names because the OW won’t have covered her tracks and deleted things.

he forgot the “context” of their texting in 2015

Wtaf

Pretty sure the only reasonable response to that is 'chinny reckon'

I am so torn between cheering on your strength, @badgergirl5 , and wanting to give you a big hug.

The gut-punch feelings lasted a couple of weeks for me, but the anger and astonishment at the lies will carry you through.

What a weak, weak man

Weak. Cowardly. Stupid.

Because anyone with half a brain would stop with the pathetic attempts to pull the wool over your eyes and face up to the consequences of their behaviour like an adult.

Absolutely nothing wrong with hiring a PI, but if his was an affaire that is long ended the PI is not going to be able to give you any evidence. If this is a case of him still seeing her and the affair going on he would be able to follow him/her and come up with the evidence. If you have some spare money to burn then go for it.