To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

Well said.

If he refuses to drop the pretence then you need to move forward with plans. Tell him to move out & that he'll be hearing from your solicitor and that you have nothing else to say until he can stop being a coward & face up to his actions.

Assuming you want / intend to split, of course?

The response has been over-thought and over-engineered, I suspect.

The whole "I'm not going to tell you why I'm annoyed" approach is unreasonable, illogical IMHO, and may prove unhelpful or even counter-productive. If one has an issue with their partner the onus is on the person who has the issue to broach the topic, not play mind games, and 'chicken'.

I'd arrange for a few hours without the kids, find somewhere quiet, and speak about your general concern. Sound him out.

How would he know what someone is upset about? Cheerleader porn? Webcam use? Porn lines? Strip clubs? Something from a year ago? An accusation from a colleague?

If he volunteers that he's been having an affair, he knows it's over. Best thing is for him to ride out the game of chicken. That's his only hope of saving his marriage and kids. What's to be gained by voluntarily fessing up to an affair of all things? Nothing!

Buy a few small cameras and put them in the other house, it might take a while but if he is taking someone there you will catch him

We aren't talking about a little mishap here. He knows exactly what she's talking about because he deleted the girl off his strava. He doesn't deserve to be given the heads up about what it's about.

“Oh, now I know why you’re so pissed off, because you just found out about my affaire with Julie! How come I didn’t think about that before?” Said no man ever…

I’d lie at this point… “if you’re completely honest with me and tell me absolutely everything we can work it out without destroying our family”… then get the confession and divorce him

Stop playing games. Your relationship is over but you are still going to have to co-parent with this man for many more years so just end it and figure out how to do that in the least damaging way possible for those children.

It will be much easier to move forward with some closure and this is the only way OP thinks she’ll get the truth.
The children won’t suffer any more or less if OP divorces with or without hard evidence but it’s for her own peace of mind.

No. Communicating with him might get her closure, but saying nothing like she's doing is just game-playing.

We’ve already established in the thread that if she tells him what she knows it won’t get her the full truth. She’s waiting for him to confess, that’s not a game it’s just giving him the opportunity to be honest.

Making him play stupid guessing games isn't going to lead to a confession. Whereas confronting him with what she knows might. Or he might just continue to lie. Either way, she won't get "hard evidence" doing what she's doing.

It’s not a “guessing game”, he knows what he’s done, he’s not having to guess! All he has to do is talk. If anyone’s playing, it’s him playing dumb.

Quite simply - people who lie, don't tell the truth. She won't ever be able to trust what he says is the truth. No hard evidence.

It is a guessing game. He doesn't know why she's being like this. He doesn't know what she's seen. He doesn't know what she's getting at. He doesn't know what she wants him to talk about. Sure, it's less dramatic for her to start that conversation herself, but it would be the most sensible thing to do.

Yes, I said much the same but the op has made it clear that she needs something so trying to support her.

I think though, op, you need to draw a line between what you're likely to get from him and what you dream about getting from him. The former will come from his character, the second from who you actually want him to be - and he's not that person.

Of course he knows! Unless his got a variety of different secrets it’s pretty obvious, he doesn’t have to guess what she wants to talk about, he just has to admit the truth. He knows exactly what she meant and his behaviour shows that - it’s why he deleted the other woman off strava.

Err excuse me, the one who is playing games is OP's husband.

I can't believe anyone would think this is a guessing game! If he has to guess what she's annoyed about after being in contact with a woman he's promised not to be in contact with, then there must be worse he's done! In which case this is exactly the right way to play it so that OP gets her answers, which is what she's clearly said she needs to move forward.

"He knows exactly what she's talking about"

Speculation.

For all he knows, she might have seen his internet search history of "Boffing the babysitter". Or found out he's used webcam girls. Or strip clubs. Or phone lines. Or a massage parlour. You have no idea. Deleting Strava may have been one of many precautions he took that was available to him.

"He doesn't deserve to be given the heads up about what it's about."

It's not about what he deserves, it's about what's going to work or not.

"Mr Jones, you've been brought in for questioning by the police."

Erm... ok, what's it about?

"Oh, no, we're not telling you. You need to absolutely confess your biggest crime. Only if you guess right will we tell you. If you guess wrong, we'll make a note of every crime you confess to until you guess the right one."

Errrrmmmm, yeah, I think I'll just exercise the right to remain silent. Can I go back to work now?

"Sure"

This is a sneaky, devious guy. He tried to date OW1 while you were out of town. He tried to date OW2 while lying that he was going out with a male. He messed up in 2018 when an OW or someone privy reached out to you. Of course, he was ‘perplexed,’ just as he is now…

@badgergirl5, you’ve been in a false reconciliation with regard to OW2. You stayed with H based on recovery requirements that he has shat all over. Whether reconnecting 2 years ago or even longer, he has brought her back into your marriage and has invested in deepening their intimacy. His gifting her the lifestyle/health book that you shared with him as you lay in bed would hurt me immensely. OW2 must be in the forefront of his mind.

It will be impossible to truly move forward until H comes clean with the full, true story, including a timeline of this and any other infidelities. I doubt that this self-serving manipulator will ever take responsibility and acknowledge the extent of his faithless behavior. It speaks volumes that, in the face of your call for his respect and honesty, he is sanitizing his platforms, blocking you from his Last Seen, and subjecting you to his farcical clueless act. His agenda is deception, so he will gaslight, deny, minimize, and blame shift, and OW2 will lie low until the dust settles.

Just as this repeat offender has proven to be a poor candidate for reconciliation, he is also a poor candidate for couples counseling, as he will likely manipulate the sessions.

Of great concern is his lack of respect for the children as he steals their mother’s agency and consent via his double life. They are being exposed to a damaging relationship model.

@badgergirl5, it’s good that you sent him away, as his presence is toxic and he needs an effective consequence for his disloyalty and contempt. Personally, I couldn’t continue with such a weak, sneaky liar whose priority is thirsting after the adoration of other women — so much so that he chose to blow his 2nd and 3rd chances.

Consider checking out the survivinginfidelity site for invaluable support and resources.

Taking these last few messages together, I wonder whether today I should simply tell him “I know you’ve been unfaithful and I need to know who, but more importantly why. I need to hear you say the name because right now I’m wondering whether there’s more than one situation.”

any risks to that?

I'd keep your cards close to your chest OP. The temptation as he "pretends" not to know is that you cave and reveal what you know (not enough).
If it were me (and I know this is hard) I'd keep your grey rock up as long as possible.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, you really don't deserve to be disrespected in this way.

What advice would you give a good friend in a similar situation?

“Im not playing silly games but right now I am in turmoil and don’t know what to do next. I want to think we can work through this, but it’s going to be absolutely impossible if you continue to lie. So I need to hear it all from you. I’ve told you that this is about your infidelity - you need to talk next. If you’re not willing to say a thing then I already know enough to leave. I can’t stay with you if you’re not even sorry.”

You mean apart from him denying it completely, gaslighting you and calling you crazy? Which you know he will do.

He absolutely won't admit it based on that. Slowly he'll work out or reveal what evidence you have, and then he'll drip feed the bare minimum to fit that evidence.