To want to catch him in a clever way? Pls help

[badgergirl5]

I think I have just discovered evidence that my husband is having an affair. Please bear with me as I explain the background - I want to be smart about how I confront him and how I make my next move, because I know he will deny it. So I’ve come here to ask for advice and ideas on how to do this. A big part of me just wants to blurt everything out but I know this might be my only chance to know the truth.

This starts all the way back in 2005!! Our kids were babies at the time. I’d had a suspicious feeling that something wasn’t right for a few months so I looked at his phone and found outrageously flirty texts with a woman at work. They were trying to arrange meeting up for a drink and he had actually checked one of the dates with me and told me he’d be going out with a mate. The texts including descriptions of what she was wearing, how she had fancied him and blushed whenever he spoke to her etc etc. I confronted him and he apologised and acted sorry - said he was having a moment of madness, would cancel the evening out with her and break off all contact. But he didn’t let me see the messages he sent to her in order to do this (yes I know this was crazy of me not to insist!!!!).

Three years later I received anonymous text messages telling me he was cheating. I never understood where they came from. He said he had no idea and someone was just trying to cause trouble.

So that brings me to 2024. We have been happily married, at least on the surface, for the last 6 years since those text messages. I have always had an uneasy feeling that he’s a flirt and needs attention from other women but have never known whether he would actually cheat.
Today I was using our shared laptop and he had left his emails open. I don’t even know why given it was YEARS ago, but I searched for that girl’s name. I found 3 separate occasions of him sending presents to her - all the same name and address. Chocolates, clothes and a book (the book actually hurt the most - it was a book about hormones that I have actually read myself. From the date, it looks as though he heard my recommendation and decided to send her one). I find a book about hormones to be a particularly intimate thing to send to someone.

first of all, AIBU to suspect a full blown and potentially long term affair ? If he’s been seeing her, it can’t ever involve overnight stays. He is never away. But I guess he could meet her during the day. Is there any other explanation for still being in contact with her after so many years and sending presents?

I would love advice on how I can play this to be sure before I confront him. How much should I admit I’ve seen?

Yeah but just wait till you've sorted the divorce.

Why. You need to put yourself first here

Well, now you know which bitter lady sent you that text at 2:00 am, if she was in another country there was possibly a time difference. It sounds like the writing in the wall is quite clear and your gut feeling is just confirming it. You need to do a bit more detective work though before taking major steps. Good luck with everything.

Also: if you tell his brother there’s a big possibility he’s going to tell your husband which means he’ll start deleting evidence right and left, block all phones, accounts etc… you don’t want that.

That fact that you don't want to tell your friends in case it clouds how the think of him is a huge red flag. Whatever the reality this time, he has acted inappropriately multiple times over a number of years. Time to prioritise your own wellbeing. I would be calling on a trustworthy friend so you can hash it all out properly.

First OP, I’m really sorry you’re going through this right now. You must be in a terrible place.

I think, judging by how you’ve described him, if you tell your husband you’ve been going through his emails at the beginning of your conversation he is likely to shut down straight away. The best form of defence is usually attack for ppl like him and it’s really likely he will accuse you of out of order action by invading his privacy and won’t listen to whatever else you’ve got to say (despite you having reason to, and that reason being confirmed). He will deflect it back onto you.

I think persist with holding back what you know for as long as possible, but you can take or leave that advice as you obv know the man best.

I can totally understand why you think confiding in BIL is a good idea - if you tell your friends or family they will side with you and the decision to give your husband another chance will almost be out of your hands as they are likely to shun him for his deceitful behaviour unless he goes above and beyond to make amends to you, and there may be no turning back. If you do not want to involve anyone close to the situation why don’t you try speaking to a therapist. They are impartial and may be able to give you solid advice and help you to decide what is best for you and your DC.

Think long and hard about the possible outcomes before unlocking this door OP bc you may not be able to go back through it should you wish to and the control of the situation may be taken by your husband to take control and get the upper hand.

If you are able to uncover financial documents before any confrontation and make copies I would advise you to do this, and perhaps consider legal advice.

Good luck and hugs OP in whatever you decide. Do what’s best for you and the kids, don’t care about the judgment of anyone else x

I don’t want to sound naive but the financial situation is ok. I have investments in my own name which generate income for me every month. I could leave tomorrow (or get him to leave) and money wouldn’t be a problem. Is there anything else you need to organise in advance before leaving? I feel like it would be relatively straightforward for us on that side of things. I also have full view of our joint money - it’s all in both names, I can see it all on our banking platform and I think they need signatures from both of us to change anything. Our properties don’t have mortgages. The upheaval of divorce would be 100% about the childcare arrangements. And that makes me feel sick. Our oldest is due to start a new school soon and I can’t do this to him - he has taken it really badly when his friends’ parents have divorced and has asked us to promise it will never happen to us. I just know he’d be one of the badly affected ones.
sorry I’m just waffling now. I don’t know when my husband is coming home but I need time to talk to him away from the kids. All I have done all day is sit here feeling sick. Thank you everyone for the advice, I will be using a lot of it.

Whatever you might think, his brother will put him first and contacting him will feed any "shes crazy" rubbish that he spouts.

Your only chance to get half way to the truth is to play hard ball. It's a negotiation. You pack his stuff and dump him when he gets home and tell him you know. Dont get drawn into it. Wait a week and if he is begging, you just say "I'm not even talking to you without a full apology for what you've done." See what he says. Tell him you know it's not the full truth. Rinse and repeat a few times and you might be close to it.

@CoffeeMachineNewbie thank you, this is pretty much what I intend to do. I’m going to refuse to talk about anything unless he’s leading the conversation with what he needs to tell me. He won’t get anything else out of me. I’ll simply say I’m trying to process things and it will help if he decides he wants to tell the truth. I can be normal in front of the kids - they have friends here this weekend so they will be occupied.

We know you're still reeling. Many of us have been there

Good that you have full financial oversight but make sure you're prepared in case he attempts to restrict it or hide monies from you - which is why I'm saying get copies / originals / screenshot of bank details / statements / investments etc

Also worth making sure you have important docs for you and children, birth certificates passports etc so that these can't be used to manipulate you later on.

Trying eating some toast or a bit fruit - apples are good when you're feeling sick from this sort of thing

This is what mumsnet is for - waffle away!

You will get and assortment of advice which you filter but don’t apologise for getting things out your head, as you’ve said there is no one else for you to really talk to right now. You have the support of MANY people on here who are wishing you well.

Try not to spend all day mulling things over, difficult I know, but it will potentially make you unwell, to say nothing of your MH. I totally understand the need to go over things to clarify them in your mind but try to give yourself stress-free breaks. Go for a walk to get a change of scene or just turn on some mindless crap on the tv - it will hopefully stop you endlessly going over this painful situation, if only for a short while, but you do need the intervals as I suspect you probably didn’t get a lot of sleep last night.

We’re here for you OP. We may be strangers but we’re wishing you all the best x

I know you would like to extract a full confession but IME of two cheating husbands they will only say the bare minimum they can get away with. Remember he has lied already so what makes you think a confession will be wholly truthful? Affair or not, your husband is a liar so you need to think about the future you want for you and your children and make sensible choices to work towards that goal. FWIW I know the heartbreak and disbelief you feel when the person you chose to share your life with can apparently choose to treat it so casually.

I have investments in my own name which generate income for me every month. I could leave tomorrow (or get him to leave) and money wouldn’t be a problem

Are you sure he isn’t entitled to half of your investments and assets just as you are entitled to his. He can come after you for your money too?

He could also insist on shared custody regardless of how upsetting it would be for the children to live between two houses?

If you want the truth the full truth you are probably have to play a very long game, never let on that you are suspicious (because then he will up his game and cover his tracks more carefully) keep careful notes of everything and wait for the missing pieces to trickle out, but who's got time for that shit🤷🏼‍♀️

Make sure you take copies/ photos of everything you have found.
There will be more evidence elsewhere however you can only use what you have which is enough!

Anonymous potentially means "her"
It happens alot when husband refuses to leave or is dragging his feet.

Do you need his admission? Sound to be he's been taking the p**s a while. If so if you have the money hire an investigator or pay someone you know and he doesn't know to track him when your not together for a week. And search his stuff. Sounds like it's been going on a long time and he prob doesn't cover his tracks as well anymore; particularly as you didn't dig very much back when it started. Does he have his own accounts? Are there statements? Maybe text msg he hasn't deleted / FB account you can log in. Collect evidence. It will help if you plan divorce 👍👍

Can you still contact that anonymous person that contacted you? Contact them back and grill them. Tbh it might be her 🤷. Good luck op...my advice ditch him. You don't need evidence...but I get you need closure 👍

Ps my sis put a tracker on her blokes car after she caught him cheating. I don't agree with it tbh...if it gets to that stage you need to pack their bags 🤷

Are you often left assuming he’s at the other property? Do you actually know he is there when not at home, who he’s with, what he does there?

For a man who is untrustworthy, he seems to have plenty of space and free time to do all sorts.

Not that it’s your prerogative to monitor another adult, but this wouldn’t inspire much trust in an already fractured relationship .

I know how much you want the truth. I would be the same. But I know too that I would never believe that there wasn’t more to tell. He isn’t trustworthy.

FWIW I think the OW and what she did and didn’t do regarding contacting him is pretty irrelevant. I’m not suggesting you are wholly blaming her but the responsibility to remain trustworthy and loyal is with the married party . The anonymous call might have been her or one of many other women he messed around. If it wasn’t her then it would be another. You’ve already said there was another too - that you know of when sadly there will be others too. When people cheat, they don’t really stop, they might pause for awhile and they get better at hiding their tracks. Cheaters need the ego boost. One woman won’t ever be enough whether that’s emotionally or physically. Even the thought of losing their children isn’t enough to stop them.
I am sorry you are going through this. I really am.

Can't believe he'd do that! Leave him asap!! Xx
ps. Out of interest, what was the name of that book?

I wouldn't do this. Your putting his brother in a very awkward position. And I would question your motive for this. I think your looking for someone trustworthy to persuade you to stay. He maybe a good person, but he is your husband's Allie and likely to be equally dismissive as he will not believe this of his brother. Speak to a friend or family member that is a balanced person not prone to being judgemental; that can keep an open mind. It's important your confidante has no allegiance to your husband, but to you and your kids 👍

@badgergirl5 I feel for you so much. I know I would feel differently if people knew the truth as they would be able to give me the right kind of support and not have to worry that people will think it is something and nothing or my doing. I just advise you to take your time with any and all decisions you make. I know with me they can change in seconds never mind minutes.

No, don't.

You will show your hand that you really don't have any solid evidence. You would have lost your one plank of bargaining power, uncertainty.

Blood is thicker than water, morals or not.

OP, don't contact the brother. No matter how moral he seems, he's always going to take his brother's side - and will probably forward your email to your DH straight away.
Good luck with sorting this out, whatever you decide will be the best action for you.

I have decided against sending the email to BiL. It was therapeutic writing it down but I won’t send. I agree that it’s way too risky.
I am finding the lack of contact from my husband very surprising. The last time this happened (when I found the texts), he bombarded me with apologies and assurances. Obviously he doesn’t know what he’s being accused of right now, but the fact he’s deleted her from strava and gone silent on me is very disturbing. For the first time I actually wonder whether he would leave.

Maybe he thinks you are going to kick him out